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Vaccine skeptic to chair national vaccine safety commission


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I also do not want to turn this into a political nightmare but I am not enthused by this move by Trump.

 

If ANYONE should be investigating this - it should be a licensed medical professional who talks the talk and can interpret medical data. Not RFK Jr.

 

He isn't one to pay attention to silly things like data and science or let those get in the way of power Tweets at 3 am.

 

Michelle Bachmann also put a dent in our progress by claiming that Gardasil caused Autism in a 13 yr old girl.

 

The British physician (now defrocked) who boasted the MMR autism link was found to be completely fraudulent and in cahoots with lawyers in an attempt to make money. His fraud is well documented.

 

As a profession, we will have to stick to the studies and facts that show disease eradication and the fact that most of us - I am pushing 50 - have never seen some of these diseases because we got rid of them.

 

I HAVE watched a 7 yr old DIE from measles and seen the only survivor of Tetanus in the state of Texas whose parents quickly changed their tune on vaccines once their son almost died. 

 

My best thoughts are to stick to our knowledge, advocate for our patients and fight stupidity and gossip at every turn.

 

I have no problem looking at a parent and telling them that if they don't vaccinate their kid and spread disease and another person dies (immunocompromised etc) then I consider that negligent homicide.

 

We do not, as a nation, need to go backwards on science and medicine.

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While I do not agree with the anti-vaxxers, there is validity to some of their claims that need to be considered.  For example, there is irrefutable evidence that the CDC purposefully covered up & altered information regarding the MMR vaccine being linked to autism in African American male children.  This is fact.  It is not debatable.  If they were willing to do it in this instance, can we really trust them elsewhere?  Every vaccine should be looked at individually.  Any blanket arguments for or against vaccines by either side without looking at all the facts is not very smart.

 

Another fact is that there have been very few, if any, studies to look at the effects of multiple vaccines given simultaneously.  Almost every study done on vaccines has only been on those vaccines individually.  I don't think such a study is unwarranted given the significant increase in the amount of vaccines a child now receives compared to when some of us were children.

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While I do not agree with the anti-vaxxers, there is validity to some of their claims that need to be considered.  For example, there is irrefutable evidence that the CDC purposefully covered up & altered information regarding the MMR vaccine being linked to autism in African American male children.  This is fact.  It is not debatable.  If they were willing to do it in this instance, can we really trust them elsewhere?  Every vaccine should be looked at individually.  Any blanket arguments for or against vaccines by either side without looking at all the facts is not very smart.

 

Another fact is that there have been very few, if any, studies to look at the effects of multiple vaccines given simultaneously.  Almost every study done on vaccines has only been on those vaccines individually.  I don't think such a study is unwarranted given the significant increase in the amount of vaccines a child now receives compared to when some of us were children.

Please do more research. The protein particles required to make a single vaccine in this era are decreased by multitudes exponentially from original vaccines.

 

The vaccines I received in the 1960s are now much more efficient in their delivery and load of viral or bacterial components or are recombinant. 

 

Overwhelmingly, there have not been adverse reactions to children receiving multiple vaccines, especially in combination formulations. 

 

There is ZERO link between MMR and autism as refuted by the British physician who fraudently manufactured data for lawyers. 

 

There is ZERO link between Gardasil and autism as spouted by politician Michelle Bachmann.

 

YES, reactions do exist, but the greater good of vaccination has not shown that the overall risk is worthy of not giving these vaccines or needlessly spacing them out.

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Please do more research. The protein particles required to make a single vaccine in this era are decreased by multitudes exponentially from original vaccines.

 

The vaccines I received in the 1960s are now much more efficient in their delivery and load of viral or bacterial components or are recombinant. 

 

Overwhelmingly, there have not been adverse reactions to children receiving multiple vaccines, especially in combination formulations. 

 

There is ZERO link between MMR and autism as refuted by the British physician who fraudently manufactured data for lawyers. 

 

There is ZERO link between Gardasil and autism as spouted by politician Michelle Bachmann.

 

YES, reactions do exist, but the greater good of vaccination has not shown that the overall risk is worthy of not giving these vaccines or needlessly spacing them out.

I agree science and research, but the CDC has mislead us on the MMR study which makes me think twice about their intentions (i.e. money in their pockets vs safe vaccines).

Also, to comment on: "Please do more research. The protein particles required to make a single vaccine in this era are decreased by multitudes exponentially from original vaccines." I agree about the protein particles, but what about the immune response when ones body is given 3-4 vaccines at once and those shots have multitudes of antigens. What is this immune response (potentially overload) doing to these children. I am glad that diseases have been eradicated, but there needs to be studies completed on these combo. vaccines. 

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When people trained in medicine are simply reiterating the "antivaxxers" speaking points without any obvious basis in fact or science, a vaccine commission is the least of our worries. My six year son has thirty kids in his class. His immune system is working, literally being bombarded by billions of antigenic particles hourly. We live in a sea of microorganisms.

 

I'm not going to debate this, but one can clearly see that the two years of basic science mds get may be worth it.

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When people trained in medicine are simply reiterating the "antivaxxers" speaking points without any obvious basis in fact or science, a vaccine commission is the least of our worries. My six year son has thirty kids in his class. His immune system is working, literally being bombarded by billions of antigenic particles hourly. We live in a sea of microorganisms.

 

I'm not going to debate this, but one can clearly see that the two years of basic science mds get may be worth it.

And what does this have to do with our discussion? I don't see your point.

I teach the class on immunizations and have done immense research and follow this topic closely.

I am no less able to understand it than a physician and more likely than an ophthalmologist or a psychiatrist from a clinical practice standpoint.

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I was referring to this:

 

...the immune response when ones body is given 3-4 vaccines at once and those shots have multitudes of antigens. What is this immune response (potentially overload) doing to these children. I am glad that diseases have been eradicated, but there needs to be studies completed on these combo. vaccines...

 

And this:

 

...there needs to be studies completed on these combo. vaccines...

 

And this:

...on the MMR study which makes me think twice about their intentions (i.e. money in their pockets vs safe vaccines)...

 

Your comment was the most cogent response to any of this. I am not sure about the background of many of the people posting here, but it's clear to me that vaccines aren't the problem, ignorance is.

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I was referring to this:

 

...the immune response when ones body is given 3-4 vaccines at once and those shots have multitudes of antigens. What is this immune response (potentially overload) doing to these children. I am glad that diseases have been eradicated, but there needs to be studies completed on these combo. vaccines...

 

And this:

 

...there needs to be studies completed on these combo. vaccines...

 

And this:

...on the MMR study which makes me think twice about their intentions (i.e. money in their pockets vs safe vaccines)...

 

Your comment was the most cogent response to any of this. I am not sure about the background of many of the people posting here, but it's clear to me that vaccines aren't the problem, ignorance is.

 

 

Yes, exactly, the people bemoaning our children's immune systems being "assaulted" by simultaneous vaccines don't seem to get that all of our immune systems are constantly being exposed to many times more antigens/day than a single round of vaccines.Your immune system can multi-task!

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For example, there is irrefutable evidence that the CDC purposefully covered up & altered information regarding the MMR vaccine being linked to autism in African American male children.  This is fact.  It is not debatable.  If they were willing to do it in this instance, can we really trust them elsewhere?  

 

Not going to deny any basic shenanigans over there; I generally don't trust the government any farther than I can pick it up and throw it.  

 

But an analogy springs to mind.  Remember Mark Fuhrman - the detective that investigated OJ SImpson?  This jackwad took every shortcut he could, violated civil rights right and left and as a consequence got half the evidence in the case thrown out, which resulted in the outcome.  

 

Doesn't change the fact that OJ did it.  Even wrote a book about doing it.  Just because there's some bungling or agendas or whatever, the truth is still the truth.

 

Vaccines - combinations, preservatives, anything related to vaccines - don't cause autism.  They have now been studied so much, they are probably the only thing we are sure doesn't.  I read somewhere there are now multiple thousands of studies.  Or maybe that was global warming?

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I won't argue the point of vaccines as I do believe in them but there are questions out there that science does not explain nor can explain. You should know the difference between being exposed to "billions" of antigens in the world vs "a few" antigens in vaccines. You are bypassing a crucial route of one's immune system with vaccination. Also, you cannot quantify the amount of antigens one is being exposed to in the world nor the concentration of those antigens. Also, you are not being exposed to the adjuvants while walking through the mall or sitting in school. Again, not arguing about vaccines, just that you make it feel taboo to ask questions when it refers to vaccines and vaccination.

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Not going to deny any basic shenanigans over there; I generally don't trust the government any farther than I can pick it up and throw it.  

 

But an analogy springs to mind.  Remember Mark Fuhrman - the detective that investigated OJ SImpson?  This jackwad took every shortcut he could, violated civil rights right and left and as a consequence got half the evidence in the case thrown out, which resulted in the outcome.  

 

Doesn't change the fact that OJ did it.  Even wrote a book about doing it.  Just because there's some bungling or agendas or whatever, the truth is still the truth.

 

Vaccines - combinations, preservatives, anything related to vaccines - don't cause autism.  They have now been studied so much, they are probably the only thing we are sure doesn't.  I read somewhere there are now multiple thousands of studies.  Or maybe that was global warming?

You should really re-read your post...this analogy is opposite of what I think your point is... Let me get this correct, it is ok for some to lie, violate civil rights and get evidence thrown out so one could not suffer the consequences of their mistake(s), but it still makes what OJ did truthful? If the truth of OJ was guilty (if all the evidence was available) then that makes Mark Fuhrman...? This does not equate over to vaccination and proving "your" point. Again, all one is saying that the CDC was caught lying with the MMR vaccination study so how can one trust the "studies" (that is a new topic for a new day) that are paid by drug companies and not a double-blinded RCT valid? Remember the saying...once a cheater, always a cheater...that has some truth to it. Again, I am NOT against vaccines, just bringing up questions/concerns/comments, and we have the medical community making "us" (the people bringing up those questions/concerns/comments) feel like it is taboo to ask questions about vaccines/vaccination. It is fine to question anything else in medicine (as seen on all the TV ads, just saw one for invokana last night), but "we" cannot question vaccination...  

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I won't argue the point of vaccines as I do believe in them but there are questions out there that science does not explain nor can explain. You should know the difference between being exposed to "billions" of antigens in the world vs "a few" antigens in vaccines. You are bypassing a crucial route of one's immune system with vaccination. Also, you cannot quantify the amount of antigens one is being exposed to in the world nor the concentration of those antigens. Also, you are not being exposed to the adjuvants while walking through the mall or sitting in school. Again, not arguing about vaccines, just that you make it feel taboo to ask questions when it refers to vaccines and vaccination.

 

 

What is the "crucial route" vaccination is bypassing?

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There is no "safe" way to gain immunity to some of the vaccine diseases. None of us have seen diphtheria in the US in our lifetime but it still exists in other parts of the world.

 

Polio has become a third world disease and measles WAS down until folks stopped vaccinating and then still went overseas and brought it back. Proven vector in a cloistered religious community in Ohio. Whooping cough is back with a vengeance and lack of vaccination spreads it in the herd and puts immunocompromised at higher risk since they rely on others for protection.

 

How would one propose safely gaining protection from bacterial meningitis without risking death? I passive exposure to Hep B acceptable? Umm, no. Do you hope your body can fight off clostridium tetani because you handle dirt a lot? No.

 

So, look closely at the disease being prohibited. Look at its vectors and spread as well as pathogen structure and viability without a human host and you get back to the idea from thousands of years ago and cowpox. Scrape a little cowpox in at a time and build up a defense without dying. Voila - immunization. Host recognition and antibody production with a memory card for future exposure that needs a little nudge every few years.

 

Infant mortality goes down. Mass death like the Spanish flu becomes more rare and people are a tad healthier.

 

If you want environmental or other triggers for bad outcomes - look at GMO, smoking, drugs, alcohol, processed foods, fast food and chemical byproducts. Walk thru walmart watching the pregnant teenager drink a red bull while eating white powdered donuts with a pack of cigarettes in her hand.....

 

I don't think vaccines are the root evil in our society or as bad as anyone wants to make them. We always need something to blame besides our own choices.

 

My old 2 cents

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Please do more research. The protein particles required to make a single vaccine in this era are decreased by multitudes exponentially from original vaccines.

 

The vaccines I received in the 1960s are now much more efficient in their delivery and load of viral or bacterial components or are recombinant. 

 

Overwhelmingly, there have not been adverse reactions to children receiving multiple vaccines, especially in combination formulations. 

 

There is ZERO link between MMR and autism as refuted by the British physician who fraudently manufactured data for lawyers. 

 

There is ZERO link between Gardasil and autism as spouted by politician Michelle Bachmann.

 

YES, reactions do exist, but the greater good of vaccination has not shown that the overall risk is worthy of not giving these vaccines or needlessly spacing them out.

 

I would agree with almost everything you said here.  But, none of it really had anything to do with what I said.  The fact remains that the CDC conspired with Merck to alter the data on the MMR vaccine, which makes them untrustworthy in the eyes of many, so a certain amount of skepticism & caution from both patients & providers is to be expected.  And, there has still been little research that produces empirical evidence on the effects of multiple vaccinations simultaneously.  Conducting such a study may finally shut the mouths of the Bachmann's & McCarthy's of this world, wouldn't you agree?  The fact that I am pointing out the flaws on one side does not mean I am on the other - just trying to keep it real.

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So are you saying that bypassing the mucosa makes the vaccine less efficacious, or somehow unsafe for the host? Please elaborate.

Yes less efficacious than vaccination, that is common sense and research does back this claim. Again, not to argue the point that vaccination is "bad", but again questioning various different topics of vaccines.  

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There is no "safe" way to gain immunity to some of the vaccine diseases. None of us have seen diphtheria in the US in our lifetime but it still exists in other parts of the world.

 

Polio has become a third world disease and measles WAS down until folks stopped vaccinating and then still went overseas and brought it back. Proven vector in a cloistered religious community in Ohio. Whooping cough is back with a vengeance and lack of vaccination spreads it in the herd and puts immunocompromised at higher risk since they rely on others for protection.

 

How would one propose safely gaining protection from bacterial meningitis without risking death? I passive exposure to Hep B acceptable? Umm, no. Do you hope your body can fight off clostridium tetani because you handle dirt a lot? No.

 

So, look closely at the disease being prohibited. Look at its vectors and spread as well as pathogen structure and viability without a human host and you get back to the idea from thousands of years ago and cowpox. Scrape a little cowpox in at a time and build up a defense without dying. Voila - immunization. Host recognition and antibody production with a memory card for future exposure that needs a little nudge every few years.

 

Infant mortality goes down. Mass death like the Spanish flu becomes more rare and people are a tad healthier.

 

If you want environmental or other triggers for bad outcomes - look at GMO, smoking, drugs, alcohol, processed foods, fast food and chemical byproducts. Walk thru walmart watching the pregnant teenager drink a red bull while eating white powdered donuts with a pack of cigarettes in her hand.....

 

I don't think vaccines are the root evil in our society or as bad as anyone wants to make them. We always need something to blame besides our own choices.

 

My old 2 cents

I do not disagree with most of your points, but I do not think giving all these new vaccines/combos is helping the situation. I 100% agree with you on the GMO foods, tobacco, processed foods, food dyes, etc are not helping this situation, but I do not think there is just one cause. I do not think it is just vaccines, but I do not think giving a 1 day old baby a hepatitis B vaccine is helping either. I think "we" have to many vaccines and way to many vaccines given at once. Lets practice smart medicine.

Infant mortality has decreased over the years, but it is still WAY to high when compared to other countries. Your point is not valid on the infant mortality topic, see statistics.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/infant-health.htm

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/29/our-infant-mortality-rate-is-a-national-embarrassment/?utm_term=.2b5a01f0fbbd

 

 

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Again, all one is saying that the CDC was caught lying with the MMR vaccination study so how can one trust the "studies" (that is a new topic for a new day) that are paid by drug companies and not a double-blinded RCT valid? Remember the saying...once a cheater, always a cheater...

 

You can't impeach one large organization or entire system based on one event.  Then we would have to say that (for instance) all LAPD detectives take a bunch of shortcuts all the time, or that all MMR Autism researchers completely just make it all up (Wakefield style) or are on the take or whatever.  

 

Dr. Dubin and Subway Jared both did time for kid porn, but not ALL Florida doctor-turned-textbook-authors and sandwich shop spokespersons are pedos.

 

Just for fun, let's say that a couple of (or a whole section) the researchers really DID decide to make some quick money for polluting the studies for Evil Big Pharma.  It doesn't make the other parts of the study, any of the other vaccine studies, or any of the other work that the CDC does, automatically suspect.

 

It also doesn't change the truth that vaccines don't cause autism.  

 

What's cool about science is that someone will come along and try to repeat your experiment, looking to get the same results so they may take it in another direction or build on it.   If they don't get the same results, they might stop and publish to say "hey, something isn't right here" and let someone else read it and do a study to figure out why.  

 

This happened to the "gluten free" guys.  The study that "invented" the craze was superseded by the original authors, I think about a year ago.  They did the study, a bunch of other studies came out saying "hey, there's some problems with your results", they read that stuff and learned more, and published a follow up study saying "yeah, we were wrong about that gluten free stuff".  It's the really cool thing about science!

 

You can Google that for more info, sorry for the tangent.  

 

Anyway, back on point and Btw, the preservatives and such were the first to go.  Mercury/Thermsiserolloliserlol (whatever) = wrong type of mercury.  Formaldehyde = not enough concentration.  Your body produced more formaldehyde in the time it took you to read this post than is in a vax dose.  

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Having said all of THAT, I would be in favor of slowing things down just a little.  I was pretty impressed at the number of vax that kids get in a short time.  

 

I'd like to see one or two at a time, like every month, to meet the same targets ( if you need, say,  3x before one year old or whatever).  But that isn't as convenient, and you have to drag the kid in more times.  I was a single parent, so I get that, for sure.

 

It seems like a decent compromise for the potential "vax combination" problem if targets are still met.  Just food for thought I guess.

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