Money

[PAtoB]

 

Sorry is the fool who trades his soul for a Corvette
Thinks he'll get the girl, he'll only get the mechanic
What's missing? He's living a day he'll soon forget

That's one more time around, the sun is going down
The moon is out, but he's drunk and shouting, putting people down
He's pissing, he's living a day he'll soon forget
 

Counts his money every morning, the only thing that keeps him horny
Locked in a giant house, that's alarming
The townsfolk, they all laugh

Sorry is the fool who trades his love for hi-rise rent
Seems the more you make equals the loneliness you get
And it's fitting, he's barely living a day he'll soon forget
 

That's one more time around, and there is not a sound
He's lying dead, clutching Benjamins, never put the money down
He's stiffening, we're all whistling, a man we'll soon forget

[EMEDPA]

agree with all the folks above talking about lifestyle>$. happiness is more important than a fat paycheck. when I got my most recent perdiem rural job we didn't even discuss salary. I knew what the job entailed, they knew my background and skillset. I didn't know what it paid until I got my first check. I knew it would be fair. it was more than I expected and would have worked for 1/2 what they are paying me due to the quality of the job, low volume, high acuity, and maximal autonomy/scope of practice. this hospital has an ED provider privilege list that is the same for docs and PAs.

[PC2ED]

2 years out. I work in NYC.

 

First job was in Primary Care. 5days/wk + 1 sat/month, no real benefits (no medical, 2 weeks vaca/yr) made $85,000 in 2015

 

Second Job in ER FT, 36 hrs/wk (12 shifts/month), very good benefits. Made $114,000 in 2016 (base is 105k, all the rest are from paid training and only 3 extra shifts that year). 

 

I feel blessed to be working only 3 days/week. I value my time off very much. I have been thinking of second job, but now that my GF left me, I see no reason to get another job. No wedding or ring to spend $$ on. I live with parent so I am maxing out on loan/debt payments. hopefully 4 years out I will be financially free. Get an apt and a loyal friend...a dog.

 

one common thread is that we are all blessed.  

[BruceBanner]

the more i progress in the field though the more i realize the only way to move up the career ladder $ wise is to go into some form of management.  You can make excellent money as a PA (see EM and inpatient setting/some OR jobs) but they come with quality of life issues and or medical legal liability increase . EM can hit 200k but at what cost of time . The only clinically lucrative specialties seem to be Derm related and that only seems to occur if you get lucky with bonus or incentive based structures.

 

i do see myself moving away from clinical medicine and more into a administration role in the future because of the pay ceiling 

 

My institution now maxes out at $130k for clinical PAs which to me is a joke

 

Yeah this is true. I've considered the same, we have admin opportunities for PAs where I work. The pay actually isnt that much better---it's just a non-clinical pathway which I think in some ways would be better and in some ways worse. You trade clinical responsibility for personnel issues, endless meetings, and doing work at home.

 

Those bonus-heavy derm jobs are out there but obviously a niche and totally volume-based.

 

As far as earnings, I'm happy with my pay but of course I'd never turn down more. I know I'll never make as much as a doc as long as I'm a PA. At a certain point it's not about making more, it's about spending less.

[WeBuyAndSellJunk]

1st yr PC = 78k + 6k loan repayment + 17.5k loan repayment

2nd yr PC = 82k + 10k loan repayment + 17.5k loan repayment

3rd yr PC = 86k + 17k loan repayment

4th yr PC = 89k + 27k loan repayment

 

Loan repayment and service time will end after my 4th year. My salary, this year and going forward, along with all other providers, is now wholly dependent on entire health center pay raises. They will have market rate re-evaluations, but I am guessing that my salary will never get better than the average PA rate time wise per the AAPA report and regional salary averages. Kind of disheartening and will probably do that lateral move to try and raise my base pay and thus prospects for better pay down the road.

[SoCal_PA]

New grad here: 

1st year: I work 14x10 hour shifts/month and I'm on course to make about 110-115k this year plus a benefits package (PTO, 401k match, health insurance) worth 15k. 

That being said, I apply to random openings here and there just to see what's out there

[PAtoB]

1st yr PC = 78k + 6k loan repayment + 17.5k loan repayment

2nd yr PC = 82k + 10k loan repayment + 17.5k loan repayment

3rd yr PC = 86k + 17k loan repayment

4th yr PC = 89k + 27k loan repayment

 

Loan repayment and service time will end after my 4th year. My salary, this year and going forward, along with all other providers, is now wholly dependent on entire health center pay raises. They will have market rate re-evaluations, but I am guessing that my salary will never get better than the average PA rate time wise per the AAPA report and regional salary averages. Kind of disheartening and will probably do that lateral move to try and raise my base pay and thus prospects for better pay down the road.

On the flip side, your loan repayment in lieu of pay, makes me wonder if more new grads should work your type of structure into a contract, from the standpoint of built-in discipline with having dedicated money each money going to their loans. ... but if you leave there and find a new new job in year 5 without loan payment, you can now command pay at $116-120K when you tell them your prior setup. and if you have that offer and your current place likes you enough, there's a chance they'd offer a nice salary bump when you remind them of your former total money package during the 4 years, right?

 

[WeBuyAndSellJunk]

The issue is that the health center does not provide the loan repayment. The repayment is actually state sponsored for work in an at-need region and a scholarship for practicing in a rural region. It has been a great gig, but you do earn your share with this population. I have attempted to command that level of pay while applying to other positions, but I either stink at negotiation or places just aren't paying that well in PC in my region.

[Guest ERCat]

One year out in AZ.

 

I make around 180K a year now. I work about 40 hours a week (15-16 shifts a month) in emergency - no call obviously but lots of weekends - and make around 145K base. With bonuses I make an additional 20K and then with my administrative hours it's another 14K. I can't complain but since this is a volatile field I am not counting on this forever!

[EMEDPA]

One year out in AZ.

 

I make around 180K a year now. I work about 40 hours a week (15-16 shifts a month) in emergency - no call obviously but lots of weekends - and make around 145K base. With bonuses I make an additional 20K and then with my administrative hours it's another 14K. I can't complain but since this is a volatile field I am not counting on this forever!

well done!

[Ollivander]

One year out in AZ.

 

I make around 180K a year now. I work about 40 hours a week (15-16 shifts a month) in emergency - no call obviously but lots of weekends - and make around 145K base. With bonuses I make an additional 20K and then with my administrative hours it's another 14K. I can't complain but since this is a volatile field I am not counting on this forever!

Damn. Is it like this all over the west coast? I'm checking out the BLS and it seems like states such as Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington all pay PAs very well.

[EMSGuy1982]

128k in WA working UC..for the time being it is nice. :-)

[EMEDPA]

WA, yes. OR not so much until you have been here awhile.

[Guest ERCat]

West Coast is great with the exception of California. In CA I would make about the same maybe a little less, but the cost of living is like triple compared to AZ!

[bob_inski]

AZ 2 yrs out. urgent care avg 50 hrs/wk. 

 

$140s 2015

$160s 2016

 

ERcat curious on the administrative hours you typically put in above your 40/hrs of clinic/wk. 

[Guest ERCat]

I work about 12-15 of admin hours on top of my normal 150ish hours a month so it ends up being like 165 hours a month on average.

[Marinejiujitsu]

California Emergency medicine salary is increasing. I am finding most jobs are offering just about 75+ an hour with 2 yrs ER experience. My current job I make roughly 85-95/hr with productivity.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

[Boatswain2PA]

So I'm proud of myself considering where I started and want to get feedback from others as you look at your taxable income for 2016. I work EM full time and made 126k working about 15-16/shifts a month (9 hours) and then did 1-2 shifts a month at a cardiology side job and made about $14k. I made less than this in 2015 when I had a baby but in 2014 made around $143k for the year. I graduated in 2009 and have had two full time jobs so far (each about three years) and always a part time job.

 

My first job was salary at 75k a year then I did some side stuff. My second and third years out I worked stupid hours and tons of extra.

 

I know some people post about how PAs can make 200-250k so I'm curious where/how that happened. I don't want to become complacent while on the other hand I want to say HELL YEAH!

 

Do you mind sharing your journey from new grad to now?

 

 

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2016 I grossed $212K as a 1099 IC, and about $15K as a W-2 employee, and I'm 4.5 years out from graduation.  I have worked LOTS of extra shifts this year in order to meet some short-term financial goals.  I expect to do the same thing in 2017, after which I should be able to cut back to part time (or even quit) if I choose as we will be completely debt free, have my military retirement, and a moderate amount of rental income as well.

 

First two years out I was an IC making $55/hr working mostly 12 hour night shifts in a very, very well run small ED, about 9K visits a year.  Worked hard, learned a lot, and was happy making $100K those years.

 

Then I jumped to other more rural hospitals and made much more money.  $60-$65/hour, but 24/48/72 hour shifts.  Then got another contract at $75/hour working 72 hour shifts.

 

Now my primary contract is $85/hr, 72 hour shifts, generally every other Monday evening-Thursday evening.  That alone grosses me $175K/year, and gets me terrific time off to play, or pick up extra shifts.

[runforhotdogs]

Damn. Is it like this all over the west coast? I'm checking out the BLS and it seems like states such as Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington all pay PAs very well.

You forget the cost of living in Cali and Seattle. I know a PA in Vegas who has been doing it for decades. He makes about $80k. Seems most of you guys are in ER. That's a high stress fast burnout area. Isn't it?

[Ollivander]

You forget the cost of living in Cali and Seattle. I know a PA in Vegas who has been doing it for decades. He makes about $80k. Seems most of you guys are in ER. That's a high stress fast burnout area. Isn't it?

I'm not even in PA school yet. I'm just doing my due diligence, planning ahead, and thinking about where I'd like to relocate to start out my career.

 

I wasn't even considering California in my post as places like CA/NY/Chicago/etc are horrible locations to work in regardless of the industry you work in or your profession in most cases. The cost of living will neutralize whatever higher salary you're being compensated. Not worth it in my opinion. Although states like Washington, Nevada, and Arizona seem promising. 

 

What specialty does the PA in Vegas work in? I'd assume family medicine and maybe even part time, as that seems very very low considering the average physician assistant income reported by the BLS in Las Vegas specifically for this past year was $138,000.

[EMSGuy1982]

You forget the cost of living in Cali and Seattle. I know a PA in Vegas who has been doing it for decades. He makes about $80k. Seems most of you guys are in ER. That's a high stress fast burnout area. Isn't it?

Outside the Seattle/metro area the cost of living isn't as ridiculous (rent/housing). The price we paid for our house would get you about 400-800 sq feet in Seattle. In the more rural areas of the state it's better. I'm a new grad just out of the gate working UC at 126k base.

[south]

No, no, no, Arizona is a terrible place and you and your extended family and all your friends should avoid it at all costs.  It's 150 degrees all the time, there are no jobs, taxes are 473% and the cost of living is sky high.  Traffic is so bad it takes you 17 hours to drive one mile and the people are all rude and ugly.  

I read somewhere that 100% of people who live in Arizona will DIE!!!  Plus we, I mean they have a lot of Dihydrogen Monoxide in the air during the monsoon season!  That's the stuff they use to cool nuclear power stations!  I can't believe people even live here, I mean down there.  Stay away!

[Guest ERCat]

Phoenix is gross and full of traffic and gets up to 120 degrees - hate it - but there are a lot of other great places in Arizona. Flagstaff, Prescott, Tucson, Sierra Vista, Vail. Also state income taxes here are on the low end... love it here and wouldn't live anywhere else. Except maybe Colorado!!!

[FSUnoles]

Colorado / Denver is on my list. anyone practicing there? When i visited my friend who is an xray tech there said that pay is a bit rough due to everyone now moving out there

[dmdpac]

Colorado / Denver is on my list. anyone practicing there? When i visited my friend who is an xray tech there said that pay is a bit rough due to everyone now moving out there

 

The Front Range of Colorado is a fast growing area.  There are a lot of people looking for jobs and wanting to live there.  The job market reflects this.  Colorado has what's called the "Mountain Effect" (or similar derivative... I've heard it called variations of that by different people).  For many employers living in Colorado with the mountains nearby is considered part of your benefits package. 

 

My n=1 first hand experience with trying to move back to, and get a job in, CO (although I have heard similar experiences from others) is that jobs are competitive and compensation is not great.  I've had a couple offers from places in CO and had to turn each offer down.  I couldn't afford to live off what they were offering (significant pay cut, buy my own health insurance off the marketplace, no PTO etc...).  I actually had a potential employer point to the mountains outside the window during compensation negotiations and say, "But... mountains!" and was totally serious about it.