Tom Price, Trump's Head of HHS-View of PAs/NPs

[True Anomaly]

 

 

I am not sure what the issue is all about. I worked for two years in a VA clinic which they call a CBOC. I managed a panel of 1000 patients; nearly all of them over 65 years of age and most very sick people. There were no doctors in the clinic for the entire period. The nearest VA doctor was three hours drive away. During the two year period, I saw the SP twice. Once for ten minutes when I started. Once again for ten minutes a year later at review time. He never called me on the phone; never visited; never asked for cosigning of notes. I agree that there are more issues to supervision than I have described but I doubt Dr Price has any idea what goes on at the VA every day with PAs who work there.

 

 

Of course he doesn't.  And I would be very surprised if anything changed on the day-to-day clinical level, especially at CBOCs

[BruceBanner]

He's not anti-PA, there is no evidence for that. If anything, I'm glad Trump appointed a physician and not a politician or glorified administrative nurse as head of the HHS. 

[Boatswain2PA]

He's not anti-PA, there is no evidence for that. If anything, I'm glad Trump appointed a physician and not a politician or glorified administrative nurse as head of the HHS. 

Careful....you might need to put a trigger warning in front of such hate speech!  :-)

[IDCtoPA]

How on earth do you claim he is something other than a politician? He has been in office for 20 years. He was a Georgia state senator from 1996-2005 and has been in the US Congress since then. Even his wife is in politics, she just moved up from city council to the state legislature. 

 

It's kind of like saying that you are glad that Dr OZ is a Doctor instead of an entertainer. 

[Boatswain2PA]

But he's not JUST a politician/guv'ment bureaucrat.  Compare his bio with the current and immediate past Sec HHS.

Tom Price:  MD from Univ of Michigan.  Completed residency at Emory, ran an orthopedic clinic for 20 years.  Assistant professor of Orthopedic Surgery at Emory.  Director of the Orthopedic Clinic at Atlanta's Grady Memorial Hospital.  ALSO a politician.  

THIS is how our politicians are supposed to be!

Current Sec HHS Sylvia Burwell started her political career WHILE STILL IN COLLEGE as an intern and governor's aid.  Has a BS in Government and Politics/philosophy/economics.  She's been a political hack ever since, and was even a subject of the Whitewater Investigation because she, for some unexplained reason, was sent to search Vince Foster's garbage! As a life-long political hack, she has never been responsible for the care of a patient.

Everything that's wrong with American politics.

Previous Sec  HHS Kathleen Sebelius:  BS in political science, and Masters of Public Administration.  Was the EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND CHIEF LOBBYIST FOR THE KANSAS TRIAL LAWYERS ASSOCIATION.   Elected as Kansas Insurance Commissioner, then Governor, then HHS secretary.  She's been in politics her entire adult life, and has never been responsible for the care of a patient.

Did you catch the fact that she was the EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND CHIEF LOBBYIST FOR THE KANSAS TRIAL LAWYERS ASSOCIATION!!

Again, everything that is WRONG with American politics.

So yeah, Tom Price is a Physician Politician.  That's how it's SUPPOSED TO BE in America...before we seceded our responsibility and authority to the political class.

 

[medic25]

But he's not JUST a politician/guv'ment bureaucrat.  Compare his bio with the current and immediate past Sec HHS.

 

Tom Price:  MD from Univ of Michigan.  Completed residency at Emory, ran an orthopedic clinic for 20 years.  Assistant professor of Orthopedic Surgery at Emory.  Director of the Orthopedic Clinic at Atlanta's Grady Memorial Hospital.  ALSO a politician.  

 

 

 

I'm not sure about having an orthopedist running the show.  If we ask him to fix a complicated problem he might just want to admit it to medicine and then follow along as a consult.....   :)

[IDCtoPA]

I take it you don't like lawyers..

 

I happen to LOVE lawyers. If it were not for lawyers:

Black folks wouldn't be allowed to vote

Women wouldn't be allowed to vote

Have you seen the movie "Loving" thank goodness for those lawyers.

Disabled children wouldn't be able to go to school

Vietnam Vets wouldn't be compensated for Agent Orange

Women wouldn't have access to abortion

You could be refused admission to PA school because of the color of your skin or your religion

I would not have been able to marry the man I love

I would have been prevented from serving my country in the military

 

The list is really endless... I wish we had a lot more lawyers..

 

HHS is not a Medical Practice... It is a government agency responsible for public policy..  The head of HHS is an ADMINISTRATOR... That is their role... I see no problem with a background in public administration. I certainly wouldn't want a Master of Public Administration as my ortho surgeon though. I might consider a trial lawyer though.. 

 

Enjoy your cool aid.. 

[LKPAC]

I take it you don't like lawyers..

 

I happen to LOVE lawyers. If it were not for lawyers:

Black folks wouldn't be allowed to vote

Women wouldn't be allowed to vote

Have you seen the movie "Loving" thank goodness for those lawyers.

Disabled children wouldn't be able to go to school

Vietnam Vets wouldn't be compensated for Agent Orange

Women wouldn't have access to abortion

You could be refused admission to PA school because of the color of your skin or your religion

I would not have been able to marry the man I love

I would have been prevented from serving my country in the military

 

The list is really endless... I wish we had a lot more lawyers..

 

HHS is not a Medical Practice... It is a government agency responsible for public policy..  The head of HHS is an ADMINISTRATOR... That is their role... I see no problem with a background in public administration. I certainly wouldn't want a Master of Public Administration as my ortho surgeon though. I might consider a trial lawyer though.. 

 

Enjoy your cool aid.. 

 

Wow.  I don't know where to begin.

 

You give lawyers WAY too much credit.  It's certainly not clear that your list can all be attributed to lawyers.

[IDCtoPA]

Point is lawyers are just people like PAs and NPs and MDs and everyone else. They do a job. There are good ones and bad ones. But, they serve a purpose in our society and system. When they are fighting against you or a position you support you may dislike them but there are just as many fighting for positions you support. And when you need the assistance of a lawyer especially against a large corporation or government entity you are very glad to have one on your side. 

 

Don't write them all off just because you don't agree with some. Remember the PAs and NPs and MDs and Clergy etc who sexually assault their patients, run pill mills, molest children.. You wouldn't want to assume everyone of them is equal to the lowest common denominator. 

[LKPAC]

Nice backtrack.

[Boatswain2PA]

LK - I think the lesson here is, for some people, Democrat politicians who are lawyers are GREAT!!!!  Republican physicians who are politicians are EVIL!!!

 

[IDCtoPA]

Good Grief... This will be my last post on this string.

 

Wow.  I don't know where to begin.

 

You give lawyers WAY too much credit.  It's certainly not clear that your list can all be attributed to lawyers.

You are mistaken. It is certainly clear that each of those gains in civil/human rights were a result of legal action brought by lawyers on behalf of clients who were being denied those rights. The only one that is even questionable is Women Suffrage which was a constitutional amendment. I am pretty sure that there were lawyers involved in that process and there were certainly lawsuits (perhaps unsuccessful) prior to the amendment.

Unfortunately our legislative process has been a poor protector and enforcer of human rights. We continue to have to rely on lawyers to fight to enforce those laws even today. Were it not for the courts (LAWYERS) we would be much worse off in terms of civil/human rights in this country.  

 

Nice backtrack.

No back track what so ever. I stated I like lawyers. I think they serve an important role. I pointed out that some folks focus on lawyers who are advocating for a position they don't support as a justification to vilify all lawyers yet they are perfectly content with the lawyers advocating for the position they happen to support. No back track. I'll state again... Lawyers serve an important purpose and I am glad we have them. It doesn't mean there aren't bad lawyers just as there are bad PAs. That is life. 

 

 

LK - I think the lesson here is, for some people, Democrat politicians who are lawyers are GREAT!!!!  Republican physicians who are politicians are EVIL!!!

 

 

The word you are looking for is Democratic.. Democrat is a noun, when used in place of the proper adjective form (Democratic) typically by coservatives it is intended as a slur or derogatory epithet. Think of Republic noun vs Republican adjective, see how that works..

 

I think the lesson is that you are projecting your thought patterns on someone else instead of taking what I wrote as what I meant. 

First, I never made any distinction between Democratic and Republican politicians or Republican and Democratic lawyers. I think if you survey lawyers you will find more are republican than democratic but it is irrelevant to their importance in our system. Perhaps your statement arises from the fact that I discussed lawyers in connection with civil/human rights and you assume that only democratic lawyers would advocate on behalf of civil rights. I can think of no other logical path from my statement to yours.. 

 

Second, I never said Republican physician politicians are evil. I made absolutely no comment directly or indirectly regarding Dr Price (or any Republican Physician Politician) fitness for office, or good vs evil motivations. None. Period. Go back and review the string. I pointed out that Dr Price has in fact gone on record as being opposed to expanded scope for non-physician providers as evidenced by his statement to the VA regarding NPs. That is a fact. I stated that given that fact PAs should take note and pay attention to how his leadership of HHS might effect the PA profession as non-physician providers. No attack, no judgement of motivations, no name calling. 

 

All that said.. I think if you look at some positions that Dr. Price has taken, and that the American Association of Physicians and Surgeons (of which he is a prominent member) supports, you will (should) have questions about whether he is the best person to head HHS.  

 

Feel free to rant and tirade amongst yourselves about how unfair everyone is treating President Elect Trump and not giving him a chance. None of the majority who elected President Obama and supported him over the past 8 years can relate to that. We really need folks like you to let us know what it is like..  Maybe you can even get some juicy tweets out in your spare time.. 

 

And that my friends is my last word on this thread. 

[Boatswain2PA]

 

The word you are looking for is Democratic.. Democrat is a noun, when used in place of the proper adjective form (Democratic) typically by coservatives it is intended as a slur or derogatory epithet. Think of Republic noun vs Republican adjective, see how that works..

 

 

All that said.. I think if you look at some positions that Dr. Price has taken, and that the American Association of Physicians and Surgeons (of which he is a prominent member) supports, you will (should) have questions about whether he is the best person to head HHS.  

No, I used the right word.  I mean a person who belongs to the Democrat party, who is now completely and totally run by the absolute leftist politicians from California and New England.

 

What specific positions has he taken (other than being against expansion of scope of practice of NPs at the VA) that you feel we should be concerned about?  

 

[Reality Check 2]

And then there are those of us who just don't believe in the Party System anymore.

 

I could never vote straight ticket on anything but certainly couldn't vote Republican either.

 

The idea that primary voting only involves Party Line is ridiculous.

 

Candidates shouldn't belong to parties or we need new parties.

 

I don't want to be labeled and certainly not in a negative way for what I believe.

 

I think we need to chuck the whole system, electoral college and all and rethink our 300  million population.

 

I certainly don't like what we have now..........................

[Boatswain2PA]

And then there are those of us who just don't believe in the Party System anymore.

 

I could never vote straight ticket on anything but certainly couldn't vote Republican either.

 

The idea that primary voting only involves Party Line is ridiculous.

 

Candidates shouldn't belong to parties or we need new parties.

 

I don't want to be labeled and certainly not in a negative way for what I believe.

 

I think we need to chuck the whole system, electoral college and all and rethink our 300  million population.

 

I certainly don't like what we have now..........................

It's ugly, but it works.  The country got tired of GWB and elected a ultra-charismatic leftist who allowed identity politics and other lunacy run rampant.  This has effectively led to the destruction of the Democrat party.  The Dem party had the chance to understand this and move to the middle, but yesterday chose to continue it's move to the far left.  Eventually the Dems will move back to the middle as  the GOP screws up (again).   

 

Re the electoral college - remember, we are not SUPPOSED to be a democracy but rather a Constitutional Republic.  The electoral college is a critically important element of our Republic that protects the minority from the tyranny of the majority.  

 

I don't like what we have either, but it's better than anything else.

 

 

But back to the topic - I am still waiting for someone to give me another example of what is "so concerning" about Dr. Price.

[Reality Check 2]

But back to the topic - I am still waiting for someone to give me another example of what is "so concerning" about Dr. Price.

 

 

But that was part of my point about parties and associations.

We only see people as their party or their association.

 

I, personally, can't see anything really good about anyone associated with Trump. That is just me and my own personal opinion.

 

We need a way for any type of candidate or person in a powerful position to be seen for their OWN positions and actions - not a party association or association by who appointed them. 

 

The party system is TOO DIVISIVE and puts people in clearly opposing camps without any ability to see that they can function with independent thought. It appears they only support a platform.

 

So, again, in regards to the subject at hand. I think it is difficult to see this particular surgeon clearly based on party lines and associations or who is paying them, pressuring them or manipulating them. Yes, that is politics at is most base and ugly but it affects who I support or believe.

 

I don't want to see John Doe - R on anything - I want to see John Doe - no affiliation.

 

I definitely thinks Tom Price is skewed or skewered first and foremost by his associations.

[Boatswain2PA]

 

But back to the topic - I am still waiting for someone to give me another example of what is "so concerning" about Dr. Price.

 

 

But that was part of my point about parties and associations.

We only see people as their party or their association.

 

I, personally, can't see anything really good about anyone associated with Trump. That is just me and my own personal opinion.

 

We need a way for any type of candidate or person in a powerful position to be seen for their OWN positions and actions - not a party association or association by who appointed them. 

 

The party system is TOO DIVISIVE and puts people in clearly opposing camps without any ability to see that they can function with independent thought. It appears they only support a platform.

 

So, again, in regards to the subject at hand. I think it is difficult to see this particular surgeon clearly based on party lines and associations or who is paying them, pressuring them or manipulating them. Yes, that is politics at is most base and ugly but it affects who I support or believe.

 

I don't want to see John Doe - R on anything - I want to see John Doe - no affiliation.

 

I definitely thinks Tom Price is skewed or skewered first and foremost by his associations.

 

This is EXACTLY the identity politics that I referred to earlier, and is an inherent problem with liberalism in America today.  We aren't unified as AMERICANS anymore, but instead have been carved up (by liberals in the Dem party, by their sycophants in the media, and the leftists in academia) into AFRICAN Americans, LGBTQXYZ Americans, Hispanic Americans, etc, etc, etc ad nauseum.

 

Liberals can only see people by their labels and not as actual people.  This is what causes the reflexive calls of racism when anyone criticizes President Obama's POLICIES.  For liberals who only see people by their labels, they can't get past those labels.  

 

So you, as a liberal, therefore see Dr. Price as a GOP, so therefore must be BAD.  Guilt by association.

 

As a conservative I don't give a damn about the color of his skin, who his parents are, what his sexual preferences are, or what party he belongs to.  I only care about his POLICIES.

 

So...other than being a big scary Republican, can ANYONE give any example of any reason we should be concerned about his POLICIES?

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

This is EXACTLY the identity politics that I referred to earlier, and is an inherent problem with liberalism in America today. We aren't unified as AMERICANS anymore, but instead have been carved up (by liberals in the Dem party, by their sycophants in the media, and the leftists in academia) into AFRICAN Americans, LGBTQXYZ Americans, Hispanic Americans, etc, etc, etc ad nauseum.

 

Liberals can only see people by their labels and not as actual people. This is what causes the reflexive calls of racism when anyone criticizes President Obama's POLICIES. For liberals who only see people by their labels, they can't get past those labels.

 

So you, as a liberal, therefore see Dr. Price as a GOP, so therefore must be BAD. Guilt by association.

 

As a conservative I don't give a damn about the color of his skin, who his parents are, what his sexual preferences are, or what party he belongs to. I only care about his POLICIES.

 

So...other than being a big scary Republican, can ANYONE give any example of any reason we should be concerned about his POLICIES?

i think you are being a little broad with saying liberals automatically hate anything GOP. I consider myself moderate to liberal, but love John McCain, Gen. Mattis, and I have little opinion on Price. I do know that he was against NP advancement in the VA, which is the only indication of his thoughts on Advanced Practice Clinicians, and that he is active in the AAPS, not that it's a terrible thing.

 

Let's not make generalizations about each other based on liberal or conservative views. I grew up in Alabama and work with Marines all day. I could make some pretty broad statements about conservatives based on my anecdotal experience that you would disagree with, so let's stick with demonstratable facts. Being the reasonable man you are, I'm sure you see the merit in this.

 

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt, since I really don't have a choice in his appointment anyway, but there is nothing wrong with watching out of the corner of my eye. Do the same thing with liberal politicians that I don't know much about.

 

"Trust but verify, sailor."

[Boatswain2PA]

Correct.  I should have said "Today's Liberals in America", who identify as Democrats, who are mostly LEFTISTS, and not at all liberal. 

I am more liberal (by the classical definition, which you are referring to) than most of those in the Democrat party today, and whom I was referring to.
 

[sillycibin]

I take it you don't like lawyers..

 

I happen to LOVE lawyers. If it were not for lawyers:

Black folks wouldn't be allowed to vote

Women wouldn't be allowed to vote

Have you seen the movie "Loving" thank goodness for those lawyers.

Disabled children wouldn't be able to go to school

Vietnam Vets wouldn't be compensated for Agent Orange

Women wouldn't have access to abortion

You could be refused admission to PA school because of the color of your skin or your religion

I would not have been able to marry the man I love

I would have been prevented from serving my country in the military

 

The list is really endless... I wish we had a lot more lawyers..

 

HHS is not a Medical Practice... It is a government agency responsible for public policy..  The head of HHS is an ADMINISTRATOR... That is their role... I see no problem with a background in public administration. I certainly wouldn't want a Master of Public Administration as my ortho surgeon though. I might consider a trial lawyer though.. 

 

Enjoy your cool aid.. 

He's making a point that actual experience in the area that you are to be an administrator is probably very helpful.  

You're comment on lawyers is really just infuriating.  Endless list.   Please go on.  Please tell me how ALL lawyers are great so therefore we need more lawyers in all disciplines.  Oh wait, we don't.  Some lawyers in some areas of law are good and we could use more, and in other areas they are parasitic.

And it's Kool Aid as long as you want to be pedantic I'll return the favor.