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Is the NCCPA on life support?


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Charles Kroll CPA is a forensic accountant who examined the books of the ABIM (American Board of Internal Medicine). The ABIM was antagonistic towards his accounting review but he prevailed. He essentially proved that the MOC ( or Certificate of Added Qualification in PA speak) is a fraud. He explains why the AMA opposes high stakes re-certification exam and MOC. Most important, he shows that the exams and MOC are motivated entirely by money. So for all of you kind, gentle PAs who think the NCCPA is a group of pure hearted folks, I ask "Who has done a forensic accounting of the NCCPA?"

 

 

http://www.charlespkroll.com/aaps/aaps.html

 

 

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Perhaps you should call the NCCPA and inquire directly.

 

Stirring up anger and vitriol here isn't going to do any good.

 

If you have doubts or want more information then please feel free to inquire and report back to us in a non-aggressive, not hateful manner about your findings.

 

NCCPA is what we have right now and isn't going away any time soon.

 

Please feel free to ask questions and request information.

 

I, for one, do not want any more hateful, bitter, antagonistic mongering. You can dislike them but please present facts and information instead of vitriol.

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Perhaps you should call the NCCPA and inquire directly.

 

Stirring up anger and vitriol here isn't going to do any good.

 

If you have doubts or want more information then please feel free to inquire and report back to us in a non-aggressive, not hateful manner about your findings.

 

NCCPA is what we have right now and isn't going away any time soon.

 

Please feel free to ask questions and request information.

 

I, for one, do not want any more hateful, bitter, antagonistic mongering. You can dislike them but please present facts and information instead of vitriol.

totally inappropriate comment that equates to troll bullying.

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CJ, I disagree about letting up and see what fall out. That just buys the NCCPA time to continue with their insistence that the PANRE is necessary for competence. The pressure should continue maybe gently and yes in a professional matter. After all aren't we professionals? Would love to see an open forum with NCCPA, AAPA and anyone else who would like to voice an opinion. Probably have to rent Madison Square Garden. If the NCCPA works in our interest then let there be a vote on the PANRE from those that take it. I for one do not like being told what is best for me by some organization that I HAVE to pay a lot of money to even if I don't agree with what they say but still need them so I can work. It is true not all states require the "C" to practice but any hospital or practice or insurance company can say you have to have the "C". IMHO

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 If the NCCPA works in our interest then let there be a vote on the PANRE from those that take it.

 

I'm not sure the mission of the NCCPA is to work in our interest. Like the ARC-PA, they are primarily oriented toward protecting the public.

 

Both of these organizations are undergoing big leadership and cultural changes. From what I have seen so far, the changes seem positive.

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This just in.....


 


NCCPA Board: No Further Changes to PANRE and the Recertification Process


 


Two years of study and deliberation about the recertification exam process came to a close this month when the NCCPA Board of Directors decided to make no further changes at this time. The Board agreed that the modifications announced in August represent the totality of the change resulting from its comprehensive assessment of NCCPA recertification processes and analysis of stakeholder feedback sought over the past 18 months.


 


The changes announced previously eliminated the requirement for self-assessment CME and performance improvement CME (PI-CME). Also, NCCPA announced that during the next few years PANRE will become a core knowledge exam focused on the essential foundational knowledge and cognitive skills all PAs should maintain, regardless of their area of practice. Today PANRE is a broader, general medical and surgical knowledge exam.


 


Board chair Denni Woodmansee, MS, PA-C says, “As an accredited certifying body, we have obligations not just to those we certify but to the public and other stakeholders who depend on NCCPA to provide a reliable, valid and relevant certification program. When making decisions about our exams and other requirements, we always consider science, psychometrics and the considerable dataset we have about PAs and PA practice. This year we also went to great lengths to gather the perspectives of PAs, PA organizations and other stakeholders and weighed that feedback heavily as well.”


 


Reflecting on the emotionally charged discourse sparked by NCCPA’s call for PA feedback on potential changes to the recertification process, Woodmansee added: “While the conversation did not unfold as we had hoped, we certainly have appreciated the active engagement of certified PAs in this process. Our commitment is to ongoing, thoughtful, evidence-based evaluation of PA practice and proven methods for assessing and fostering the development and maintenance of the competencies necessary for safe and effective PA practice. NCCPA is an organization committed to continually seeking the most effective means of accomplishing our public mandate while remaining attentive to the very strong desire to maintain PAs’ professional flexibility, credibility, and accessibility.”


 


Work has already begun on the identification of core medical knowledge content for PANRE; changes to the exam’s content will be gradual but steady over the next several years.


      


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" Our commitment is to ongoing, thoughtful, evidence-based evaluation of PA practice and proven methods for assessing and fostering the development and maintenance of the competencies necessary for safe and effective PA practice. "  - PA Woodmansee

 

I ask "What evidence PA Woodmansee refers to that PANRE improves patient outcomes?" 

 

Now more than ever, the NCCPA should undergo a forensic accounting review to assess their real agenda.

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How about we ALL try and focus on the topic at hand and let each others' stylistic differences just wash over us?  I'd rather see more discussion about topics like NCCPA, rather than meta-discussion about how we can best discuss NCCPA.

 

The original post was a video that explained the financial misadventures of ABIM and it's MOC process.

Linking MOC and Board Certification to competency is a separate issue as is the PANRE. 

Also linking to patient outcomes is a separate issue. More likely patient outcomes are affected more by local processes rather than national.

Years ago, the NCCPA determined that the practical exam was too cumbersome and costly so placed the responsibility back to training programs.

But we are a country focused on some entity telling us that those whom are professionals are competent and we are safe in their hands.

 

I would propose that instead of burning the NCCPA to the ground, we instead continue to deal with the devil we know. If we don't, eventually there will be an alternative to contend with such as a state regulatory body or another organization that inserts itself such as CMS or JCAHO. 

Could also hear from physicians that if they have to do MOC or maintain BC status, then how come their 'assistants' don't?

 

Need to point out the short lived SA and PI requirements were not going to add $ to the NCCPA. They also are going to actually cost NCCPA $ because have to rework software to account for the added weighting those forms are now worth.

 

I think the majority of arguments against the PANRE would dry up if two things occurred. First, if recert fees are paid by through professional development funds. This should be an individual responsibility when negotiating contracts or employment agreements. Next, the PANRE content is a black hole. Big topic list, broad task areas. I have walked out of 2 PANRE with a WTF and no idea what purpose it just served. Need to have clear cut expectations concerning 'core medical knowledge'. That means communicating to us using an information source what this is. Prime example was in Clinical Medicine class during training, the instructor holding up our required text and telling us all the answers are here, read it, know it, cause the answers to those questions could be referred to by chapter and page. For the specialist PA, and there are plenty of them, this can allay significant concerns and avoid the sudden loss of employment and income due to failed PANRE.

 

There will always be those whom don't want to relinquish $ without perceived direct benefit and those who feel they don't have to prove competency for everyday performed duties. Don't have an answer for those other than pursue employment in world regions and industries where  those requirements are not in place. 

 

I look forward to seeing what the new blood at NCCPA comes up with next.

G Brothers PA-C

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  • 1 month later...

I do think accountability is something not even the NCCPA should be exempt from. 

 

I actually wrote the AAPA several weeks ago asking "who is the NCCPA accountable to?"  Having spoken with the NCCPA several times recently, I personally find them rigid and have a bit of authoritarianism quality, which I do not like one bit.  I feel their reactions to the AAPA challenging the NCCPA's premise that the passing of the PANRE computer exam somehow equals being more safe of a practitioner reflects that posture as they seemed defensive and not open. 

 

To that point, I don't feel I'm any more "safe" of a practitioner now, being very seasoned, autonomous, trusted, and competent than I was compared to my very first week as a PA.  Why? ...because I know my limits, I ask questions, I read/research what I need to, etc, etc... That is how I was a "safe" practitioner when I was brand-spankin' new as a PA.  It's also how I continue being safe, even to this very day.  I, for one, never have, or will, buy into this concept of "being more safe" by sitting at a computer for an exam. 

 

To the person, who challenges ideas/traditions, such as expecting accountability: I commend your thoughts, which I do not see as volatile or hateful at all.

 

To those, who are either afraid or feel it's wrong to challenge current ways or shake things up: That is certainly not how this profession even came about.  It also shouldn't necessarily be looked at as a bad or negative thing if some promote critical thinking and challenge the system.

 

Here's an illustration of how stuck in their own traditionalism the NCCPA is:
​Recently, a colleague PA asked the NCCPA about the re-certification process/PANRE and why it hasn't grown and evolved with our profession and expect specialty PAs to continue to know family practice.  The reply from the NCCPA was, [...from the start, we've supported family practice PAs and we will continue to...]   Well, over 70% of PAs work in specialties and that percentage won't likely decrease!  So, it's a simple fact that the NCCPA has failed to grow and evolve with us as a profession.  I find nothing wrong with challenging that or having expectations of accountability of their processes. 

 

This comes back to my question: Who is the NCCPA accountable to?

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