"Hello, I will be your Medical Practitioner today."

[chichamorada]

But we are their (the MD's) assistants, in a way...

Not in the same way that an MA would assist, but let's be real - we can never function without an SP, but they can surely function without us.  We are not their associate, not their partner...we are working under their supervision in the legal sense if not in the practical, day-to-day sense.

 

I'm actually in agreement that a name change would be great, if only so that legislation could pass more easily. Ultimately a lot of the restrictions placed on PAs could cause extra burden to patients.   So a name change would be great if it can solve this problem. But let's be real about what the profession actually is, not what we idealize it to be.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

But we are their (the MD's) assistants, in a way...

Not in the same way that an MA would assist, but let's be real - we can never function without an SP, but they can surely function without us. We are not their associate, not their partner...we are working under their supervision in the legal sense if not in the practical, day-to-day sense.

 

I'm actually in agreement that a name change would be great, if only so that legislation could pass more easily. Ultimately a lot of the restrictions placed on PAs could cause extra burden to patients. So a name change would be great if it can solve this problem. But let's be real about what the profession actually is, not what we idealize it to be.

We function without an SP present all the time. I have my own panel that has no MD/DO input. I don't assist anyone. Legally, yes, I have a collaborating physician, but this is going to change. Sooner than I expected in my career with the new FPA recommendations coming out of the AAPA task force. Even the MDs want it to change. With fewer private practices and more hospital systems buying up practices, MDs aren't seeing increase in profits supervising PAs. Administrations are still making them though, and many would love to have the relationship severed or hire NPs instead that don't require extra paperwork and admin time. It will change or this profession will fade into the background as the NPs pump out grads that don't need arbitrary restrictions to practice. So why not just go ahead and agree the title needs to change.

[HMtoPA]

I don't understand the resistors that pop up at every discussion of a name change. The argument is always something along the lines of "if it aint broke, don't fix it," "it'll cost too much money," and "just be a good provider and stop trying to stroke your ego."

 

I'm personally not a "go along to get along" kind of guy. To the older PAs who think the current arrangement is just fine, all I can say is I respectfully disagree. For all the reasons enumerated hundreds of times, I think we have a terrible job title (inaccurate, confusing for patients, and frankly professionally demeaning). That I will suck it up and practice medicine the best way I know how is a given, but that is in no way mutually exclusive from advocating for a name change. 

 

Referring to a person who diagnoses and prescribes medications as an "assistant" is a professional stigma, in my opinion, especially in the current landscape of degree creep. I work w/ clinical pharmacists and psychologists who are referred to by everyone as "Doctor _," yet I co-sign these people's notes. When one of the MD's proposed we change the duty schedule to include "midlevels," the NPs were quick to point out that a PA "had to be supervised" and could not be the ultimate medical authority in a given situation (my counter-argument, of course, is that supervision need not be on-site, and that I have functioned for many months at a time in the absence of actual supervision - but hey, if they don't want me to stand duty, I'm not gonna fight them too much about it...).

 

Of course, these are many separate issues, perhaps none directly impacted by our job title. But the fact is, I perceive many different slights (call them micro-aggressions, lol) that lead me to believe that the reputation of our profession is being eroded. Just a few short years ago, when I was entering this profession, NPs & PAs were largely considered interchangeable, and more and more I see them trying to distance themselves from us. Would a name change help? Perhaps not in the absence of updated legislation that reflects our actual capabilities, but the "assistant" name certainly isn't helping, and in my view facilitates easier dismissal of the profession and undermines us all.

[Joelseff]

Are being a good provider and wanting a more apt title mutually exclusive? ????

 

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[ventana]

Ego!

 

 

Get over it! I'm a proud "Physician Assistant," well respected by my patients and thriving in practice. Go start explaining what a "Medical Practitioner" or "Physician Associate" is all over again!!! I think you're going a little overboard with the "Political" argument. Come on...really?

 

 

Just be a competent medical provider and people will not care. One of my biggest influences in becoming a PA was a Korean and Vietnam vet. Trusted his PA more than his doctor because he knew his PA and his PA spent time with him. Tomato tomahto. As long as you are competent, that is what matters. A name is a name, it does not define you. Remember why you are here and what you want. If you are so worried about name, then be an MD. Practice medicine well as an PA, NP, MD, or DO, just practice medicine well.

 

 

Saddens me to see such thoughts on this board

 

Unsure where everyone is in their career but honestly I had no idea of the true restrictions and bias placed against PA till >10 years into my career 

 

 

As to the person that stated we are the doctors "assistant"  

Well - that is the ENTIRE point.  We don't need supervision, not a single study has shown we do worse then Docs in quality of care, and a few have shown we do better.

As to the people saying "go back to medical college"  -  Why?  All I am asking for (and what appears to be the majority or at least a great number of PAs) is the evaluation of a name change.  

 

 

 

In today's world perceptions matter and we MUST ensure the future of the profession and allow our kids and their kids to be able to continue what we have all started.  I truly feel the way to do this is three steps

1-name change now to Physician Associate

2-unlinking us from physicians - we are our own career and we do not need "physician supervision"  I would however agree with the first year out of school being just like SLP's where you have to have a supervision agreement in place, and this could be EITHER an experienced PA or a Doc.  But then at the end of 12 months, you are free of this requirement

3-total independence to bill and sign every and all forms for insurance and care purposes

 

 

All this should be done with a focus on TEAMWORK and that we are part of a team.

[mandrew1]

The financial part comes in when you have to change one word on every piece of literature/brochure (AAPA, State Chapters, Every PA Program, Legislation, etc.) Additionally, the hours of work-time re-educating patients that we are now physician associates, not physician assistants anymore. I'm sure the patients will be very impressed and say "Oh, now I get it! You're a physician associate, that makes so much more sense to me now."

 

Nobody pays for changing state statutes? Really? It's free? Since when is anything the government does either free, or cost-effective?

 

Look, I get the argument about changing the name. I absolutely feel that physician associate better describes what we do. This argument has been going on for a very long time, and frankly we've missed the boat. I think it's called "Acceptance."

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

The financial part comes in when you have to change one word on every piece of literature/brochure (AAPA, State Chapters, Every PA Program, Legislation, etc.) Additionally, the hours of work-time re-educating patients that we are now physician associates, not physician assistants anymore. I'm sure the patients will be very impressed and say "Oh, now I get it! You're a physician associate, that makes so much more sense to me now."

 

Nobody pays for changing state statutes? Really? It's free? Since when is anything the government does either free, or cost-effective?

 

Look, I get the argument about changing the name. I absolutely feel that physician associate better describes what we do. This argument has been going on for a very long time, and frankly we've missed the boat. I think it's called "Acceptance."

I've already addressed these supposed costs already. It doesn't have to be an overnight change as materials are continually updated and could have the new moniker the next time is updated. AAPA wouldn't spend a dime because it has ALREADY moved to only using the initials PA and decided to remove assistant from its educational materials. As for PA programs, I think they are enough of a cash cow they can afford to change the sign out front and hit control+F on their website to find all the references that need changing. Brochures go in the trash almost as fast as you can hand them out. Most literature these days is electronic and would cost very little to update.

 

You don't pay lawmakers to change statutes. They are going to do it anyway because that's what your taxes do. If they aren't updating our title it will just be some other statute or law being passed or modified. This update would literal cost them nothing other than paper to print out the substitution on. You can stop sounding smug about how government works.

 

The time of educating patients? Lulz. It takes 5 seconds to explain it. "Hi, I'm PA so and so." "Oh you want to know what PA means? It was physician assistant until recently we decided physician associate was more appropriate. We practice medicine." It adds like 5 words to those who need to be educated. It would take 720 explanations to add up to an extra hour of work. As far as impressing patients, you're confusing with this being about ego again. As stated it's for policy makers and public opinion behind us when we need support for decreasing restrictions.

 

We did it when we changed from physician's assistant. Why would it cost so much more now than back then? The answer is it doesn't. It costs even less now.

 

Look, I get that you cannot see how it benefits us politically. Not everyone will have the same opinion and that's okay. The debate has been going on a very long time and, frankly, it would go away if you stop fighting it. I think it's called "Acceptance."

 

*Edited for spelling/grammar corrections*

[needmorecoffee]

We call that a mike drop

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[True Anomaly]

In regards to the cost of name change, specifically referring to lawmakers- it actually does take money to help make this happen.  While you personally may not contribute to it, your state organization likely has a PAC that it utilizes to help gain access to lawmakers to discuss the issues pertaining to PAs- including anything like a name change.  They're very likely not to give your message serious consideration unless there is some sort of relationship established- and this is typically done through PAC donations.  Whether you agree that this is appropriate or not, this is how the game is played in regards to any changes to state PA laws.  And if you doubt this, I highly encourage you to get deeply involved with your state PA organization and report your alternate findings.

 

Let's say there are no PAC donations to be made- simply you get a bill introduced (good luck finding a sponsor without making ANY donations) to discuss name change.  You want other legislators on board?  You either need a lobbyist or you need to actually visit the offices of several key legislators who likely have a strong say in whether this gets passed or not.  These visits cost money- either the organization funds their members to visit the state capitol and "walk the halls" or the PA themselves fund the trip.  And if your organization has a lobbyist, they're not doing it for free.

 

Sorry, but the idea of making changes to laws pertaining to PA's requiring zero funding whatsoever is patently false

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

In regards to the cost of name change, specifically referring to lawmakers- it actually does take money to help make this happen. While you personally may not contribute to it, your state organization likely has a PAC that it utilizes to help gain access to lawmakers to discuss the issues pertaining to PAs- including anything like a name change. They're very likely not to give your message serious consideration unless there is some sort of relationship established- and this is typically done through PAC donations. Whether you agree that this is appropriate or not, this is how the game is played in regards to any changes to state PA laws. And if you doubt this, I highly encourage you to get deeply involved with your state PA organization and report your alternate findings.

 

Let's say there are no PAC donations to be made- simply you get a bill introduced (good luck finding a sponsor without making ANY donations) to discuss name change. You want other legislators on board? You either need a lobbyist or you need to actually visit the offices of several key legislators who likely have a strong say in whether this gets passed or not. These visits cost money- either the organization funds their members to visit the state capitol and "walk the halls" or the PA themselves fund the trip. And if your organization has a lobbyist, they're not doing it for free.

 

Sorry, but the idea of making changes to laws pertaining to PA's requiring zero funding whatsoever is patently false

An excellent point that shows understanding of how government works. I've already addressed this in a previous post as well. We already pay for lobbyist. Are we not continually trying to update laws and remove restrictions? While I'm not saying we should throw everything out and put this at the forefront, it would not cost extra, or certainly not millions extra, to have the lobbyist to bring up the title change at the same time they bring up decreasing supervision requirements or some other modernization change. So, again, I don't see this costing "a fortune" like it has been suggested.

 

I know the costs well as I have been involved in numerous PAC organizations as a RN, though admittedly not as a PA as military service restricts my time, so I don't doubt the need for lobbyist. I'm simply suggesting that adding an item on their agenda would be minimal.

[wildPAbrendan]

My hospital has just lumped NPs and PAs together as Advanced Practitioners and patients are told "one of the advanced practitioners will see you."  I prefer advanced practitioner to PA as I also think the "assistant" part of our name has held us back.  Love being able to do conscious sedation on patients but I can't order restraints...

Advanced Practitioner works too. I wouldn't mind the idea of specializing like NPs do.

[SoCal_PA]

Any timeline for an actual vote that may help with a change? 

[wildPAbrendan]

Thanks for weighing in everyone. I know the name change topic has been beaten to death, but this was informative.

[sk732]

MP = Military Police or Member of Parliament here in Canada...I"m neither.

 

SK

[Reality Check 2]

I completely advocate for Physician Associate to maintain the PA moniker.

 

Not sure it will make a world of difference but it is a step in the right direction.

 

As long as I don't have to wear a headset and ask if they want fries with their unneeded antibiotics in an effort to keep my Press Ganey scores on target.....

 

HOW I practice is still far more important than what I am called........................

[Guest Paula]

I'm President of my state academy and we are going for FPAR and I have already added Physician Associate as a descriptor of PA in the draft legislation. I'll let you know if it gets cut out when we finally get it in front of the legislators, in 6-9 months or so. 

[Ridiculopathy]

In keeping with "PA," how bout physician ally, physician assassin, physician aardvark, physician abandoner, physician abdictor......i just hate "associate!" Hahaha!

[south]

Contributing nothing, as usual, but I would like to point out that "Ridiculopathy" is now officially added to my vocabulary.  Carry on.

[overthehorizen]

mandrew1 seems to love being magnanimous, humble and undervalued. The title Physician Assistant implies ownership. It implies a master slave relationship. It implies one party being competent and the subordinate party having little competency. I am going to relate my experience with this "title" in one single day when starting at a new job recently. At the orientation, the HR representation refers to me as a Physician's Assistant. I correct her and explain that PA is a Physician Assistant. I then explain the training pathway and how I collaborate with Physicians on my team. Then I go to the hospital where a meet an NP. Her first words are "boy, those docs sure like to keep a tight grip on you guys." Then I am driving home and a police officer pulls me over for driving too slowly. It was suspicious driving the speed limit when everyone else is speeding. He asks "what do you do?" I wonder why this is of interest but in the interest of expediency, I explain, I am a PA. He replies "your a Physician's Assistant." I reply, "no, a PA is a Physician Assistant." He says "what's the difference." I reply, "well, what is difference between the title "officer" and "fu#$tard"?" He then invites me to step out of the vehicle. Man, that officer sure had an ego!