Wage quote vs. offer - When can you negotiate?

[Poetsiren]

OK, so I got a wage quote from a big hospital HR after an interview. The OM presented it and even he didn't sound like he liked it and was worried I would walk. He gave me the quote, was unsure of OT and wage differential since I would be working evenings. He asked if I would even be willing to come back in and talk. I said I would welcome another visit with them.

 

I figure, it's not an official offer because we haven't discussed any benefits or literally ANYTHING yet.

 

So this wage quote pre-offer is throwing me off. At what point can I turn this into a negotiation?

 

Also, how much have you seen for shift differentials for evenings (not overnights)? It would be nice to hear from others about those. I thought it's anywhere from $5 to 30% pay....

[PAS2014]

Interesting... I've been interviewing for 8 months and just accepted a job that I'll be starting Monday.  However, I had several interviews (sometimes phone interviews even) that would throw out their minimum and maximum pay rates for new graduate PAs/NPs.  Typically, I would try to discuss new pay rates over the phone and it never went anywhere ("Sorry, PA, we start all new graduates at $XX rate, and may be able to negotiate and increase in your pay by $1-3/hour based on your previous experience, but we will not be able to go above $XX rate due to our corporate policy.")  So, the light bulb always went off in my mind of "AHA!  This is why this job has been posted on their website for 5 months!"  Thus, I would thank them and hang up without any further conversation, because seriously, what's the point?  Usually these jobs were discussed as $33.00 - $41.00 per hour.

 

However, if you find that the job is what you are looking for, why not return to their office after you have done the appropriate pay/scope of practice research and sell yourself and what you are worth?  If they don't bite, they aren't worth working for!  But, maybe they will see how valuable you are?!  If you really want the job, I'd say it's worth the extra hour it may take you to meet with them.  The worst they can do is low-ball you further, and then you can say your did your best and made a good decision to not get screwed... 

[MT2PA]

You turn this into a negotiation now essentially.  If you go back in and hear all the benefits - OT, shift diff, PTO, etc then you counter.  You can say 'those benefits are great but based on XYZ (salary reports, ideally) a new grad in this area is starting at $XX pay.'  Either they can negotiate or they say this is what we can offer take it or leave it.  

 

Go in knowing what you'll ask for, what is your ideal (within realistic terms), and what you'd be willing to accept (compromise).  Know what you won't accept. If the 'wage offer' that is on the table is too low, would great benefits make up for it?  If not, know when you'll walk away and actually walk away.

[mgriffiths]

Negotiations start the moment salary/benefits is brought up.  As MT2PA stated, you have a baseline to begin with, now do your research and walk into the next visit with your goal salary and your minimum.  Personally, I like to have data to back up my numbers when negotiating.  Before any interview I have I break down the AAPA salary report for the specific state/specialty I'm interviewing for and use that the support my negotiating.

[ventana]

If it is not in writing it doesn't matter....

 

 

Pay is only part of it - should also have the following bennies

 

Full single health insurance and most of health insurance for family

401(k) or similar with standard match (this is a Corp thing)

10+ holidays

4 weeks vacation

3-5 days CME

1-2 weeks Sick/Personal

$2000-$4000 CME per year to be spent as you determine

[WeBuyAndSellJunk]

I am curious how often people are seeing offers for bennies as good as Ventana mentions above? That seems like a bit of a dream job if the salary were decent. I am all about fighting for that level of equality, as we are revenue generators, but I am just not seeing those offers in my neck of the woods (western NC). 

[needmorecoffee]

Negotiations start the moment salary/benefits is brought up.  As MT2PA stated, you have a baseline to begin with, now do your research and walk into the next visit with your goal salary and your minimum.  Personally, I like to have data to back up my numbers when negotiating.  Before any interview I have I break down the AAPA salary report for the specific state/specialty I'm interviewing for and use that the support my negotiating.

 

I'm genuinely wondering how much weight the AAPA salary report carries in negotiations. I have a family member who is a recruiter for a large hospital and hires tons of APPs; she was telling me her department doesn't put much stock into the report because it is a self reported survey. Not trying to start anything here or come across as daft, just sincerely wondering if any of yall have actually had the salary report in hand during negotiations or used it directly to justify your requests. Thanks in advance.

[Poetsiren]

I am curious how often people are seeing offers for bennies as good as Ventana mentions above? That seems like a bit of a dream job if the salary were decent. I am all about fighting for that level of equality, as we are revenue generators, but I am just not seeing those offers in my neck of the woods (western NC). 

I think it's all about WHERE you are and how long you've been working, not to mention the type of position. I can tell you from what offers I've seen that about $1500-2000 for CME seems to be the norm. And as far as vacation, PTO, holidays, and sick time - most employers are lumping alot of those together. For instance the urgent care clinic I recently looked at there were no holidays and you had 3 wks vacation that was rolled in with sick time because you worked longer hours and fewer days.

 

 

.... I have a family member who is a recruiter for a large hospital and hires tons of APPs; she was telling me her department doesn't put much stock into the report because it is a self reported survey. Not trying to start anything here or come across as daft, just sincerely wondering if any of yall have actually had the salary report in hand during negotiations or used it directly to justify your requests.

 

I have the AAPA report, but sections of it feel incomplete as far as data and overlap of salary with experience, and then I also have the US bureau of labor statistics printout. If you click on the graphs they have on the website, they are interactive - hovering over your area displays the data for that area, which is helpful. They can't argue that the AAPA survey is wrong if you show them the US bureau of labor statistics matches the AAPA report.

If your area data is available, hover your mouse over it in the "annual mean wage" chart that looks like a blue paper mache' project. (LOL) I took a screenshot with me!

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291071.htm

[mgriffiths]

As far as benefits, from all of the jobs I've applied to I would say below is pretty average for a NEW GRAD:

• 3-4 weeks PTO
• ~2 personal days
• 5 days CME
• $2000-$3000 CME
• 100% single healthcare covered, good family coverage
• All licensing, credentialing, etc. covered outside of CME
• 401k retirement with 3-5% employer match
• ~7 paid holidays (but I've also seen as few as 5 holidays at multiple places)

Probably forgetting some things...

 

I honestly have not found the AAPA salary report to be that useful outside of primary care.  I have only found one new grad ortho position that paid around what the salary report stated, and it was in the middle of nowheresville.  Everything else has been at least $10k less, but I think the important thing is to know how your salary will grow over time.

[ventana]

I am curious how often people are seeing offers for bennies as good as Ventana mentions above? That seems like a bit of a dream job if the salary were decent. I am all about fighting for that level of equality, as we are revenue generators, but I am just not seeing those offers in my neck of the woods (western NC). 

 

 

almost 15 years of work and only one job did not have close to the bennies listed.... and that was PTO in the ER  - and that is a different story... but I got like $3k for CME there

[IDCtoPA]

The 2016 PA Salary report on page 3 details how the AAPA survey compares to the NCCPA and the BLS. They all track very closely and the BLS is EMPLOYER reported compensation. I am sure that hiring managers try to discredit or dismiss the report. After all their interest is to pay you as little as possible.

 

They might argue that they do not accept the validity of the AAPA report and can not offer compensation that is competitive with it. But, obviously someone is paying those wages or the report would not correspond so closely with NCCPA and BLS. People might argue the BLS does not break out by specialty or years of experience. I agree that can introduce a range of uncertainty for the smaller specialties. But, on the whole if AAPAs numbers aggregate to match the BLS then they have to be pretty close. It is unlikely that one specialty / experience level / locality is self reporting 10% low and another with the same numbers of respondents is reporting 10% high in order to cancel one another out.

 

Ultimately you as an individual have to decide if you are willing to accept the compensation package you are being offered. More than wages and compensation will/should weigh on that decision. Work environment, shift / schedule flexibility, commute, personality, advancement opportunity, potential for mentorship, etc..

 

For instance, I would gladly give up 10K a year in salary for a 10 minute commute vs a 40 minute commute. I would take a lower salary for a 4 day 40 hour week vs a 5 day 40 hour week.. Those are things I find have a very positive impact on my quality of life and stress level..  But, that is just me...

 

After a military career where nothing was ever negotiable, I think this is the one aspect of transition into the civilian community that I am most anxious about and least looking forward to.

[2livecrews]

Is there anywhere to find the 2016 AAPA report other than paying $200 for it. I am literally looking for one page of it to present to my employer for a pay raise . Can anyone help me out here?

[Z PA-C]

Is there anywhere to find the 2016 AAPA report other than paying $200 for it. I am literally looking for one page of it to present to my employer for a pay raise . Can anyone help me out here?

It's free if you're an AAPA member. They changed the format so that it is no longer a pdf. No longer very mobile.

[Poetsiren]

I have been looking in my area for a position for almost a year. Had quite a few interviews and only 2 places offered salary close to my worth. This place was one of them (the other place only had claims malpractice). I don't need all of the benefits - my husband works for an insurance company now and I get great benefits through him/them.

 

I accepted the position but put in a counter for the pay that they quoted me. The place is closer than any of the other locations I've been looking, AND the staff were great and appreciate my skills already and have a deep appreciation for PAs in a VERY NP saturated (and NP-preferred) area. Plus the debt while looking for a job isn't fun, LOL!

 

I couldn't not accept. That would just be stupid. Now I'm just waiting for them to accept/deny my wage counter, and then to get my contract to have it read by a legal rep.

 

FINGERS crossed! Prayers going!

[ventana]

Is there anywhere to find the 2016 AAPA report other than paying $200 for it. I am literally looking for one page of it to present to my employer for a pay raise . Can anyone help me out here?

 

you need to join AAPA and send some $$ to the PAC so that they can advocate for us