Salary comparisons

[jysn240]

Hey everybody,

 

I know I'm not alone when I believe that the AAPA salary reports seem a bit low.  A good way to compare is by stating our specialty, salary/hourly, experience (yrs), state.  I found that by jumping over the social barriers of pay discussions I was able to get an idea of what we are worth today.  Being that we're on the internet, the anonymity of this forum as opposed to Huddle (AAPA) is definitely beneficial.  But the public access is more of a risk.

 

About a year ago I graduated and was probing around here about expected salaries in psych.  I appreciated all the feedback. Here's an update:

 

Urgent Care, CA: hired $50/hr, proved myself after 2 weeks > $55/hr;  after 7 months $65/hr

 

Psych, IA: hired 120k, 2k sign on, 3k 1year retention; potential bonus

 

 

Curious to hear the stories and what y'all think.

 

 

Side note: a friend got a sign-on bonus of 18k, IM,  in CA, 8yrs exp.  I couldn't believe it!

[quietmedic]

Haha wow.  Location, location, location.  In NYC a PA would kill for a starting salary of 40 an hour just out of school.   65 an hour? maybe after ten years, unless of course you are in surgery. No just out-of-school PA in their wildest dreams makes more than 85K a year in NYC, in my experience, unless some kind of special circumstance. 100K, maybe after 5-10 years of experience.  Hehe, that's NYC for you...

[Guest GoyaHoya69]

i know of a girl who graduated from the cornell PA program and made 110k in surgery in NYC right out of graduation. given the COL in NYC, i don't see this as that crazy of an offer. but then again, what do i know.

[BruceBanner]

Yep, location location.

 

Denver is a competitive market. 90-100k is good here. Not sure about surgery, dont care.

 

I've seen ads offering 65-70k for new grads.

 

Everyone would like to make more money, but honestly once you hit the ~100k range it's more about what you DONT spend. Lifestyle inflation is why most people are still working at 65+.

[ventana]

location can be defined as what PAs are willing to take as a low ball offer

 

We make ALOT of money for a practice (if we are capturing our billing) and they know this, but their is the whole low ball offer thing that really ends up hurting our profession.  Sometimes I have seen the new grads getting more then the already hired, 3-5 year out PAs as they were hired low and have not been brought up to where they should be.  I have also see an entire system give a 20+% raise to every PA/NP as they were so far under the going rates that they could not hire.

 

If every PA realizes that we are a revenue stream, bill for what we do, and demand a fair compensation package we should all be in the 100k-180k range IMHO

[Believe]

Hey everybody,

 

I know I'm not alone when I believe that the AAPA salary reports seem a bit low.  A good way to compare is by stating our specialty, salary/hourly, experience (yrs), state.  I found that by jumping over the social barriers of pay discussions I was able to get an idea of what we are worth today.  Being that we're on the internet, the anonymity of this forum as opposed to Huddle (AAPA) is definitely beneficial.  But the public access is more of a risk.

 

About a year ago I graduated and was probing around here about expected salaries in psych.  I appreciated all the feedback. Here's an update:

 

Urgent Care, CA: hired $50/hr, proved myself after 2 weeks > $55/hr;  after 7 months $65/hr

 

Psych, IA: hired 120k, 2k sign on, 3k 1year retention; potential bonus

 

 

Curious to hear the stories and what y'all think.

 

 

Side note: a friend got a sign-on bonus of 18k, IM,  in CA, 8yrs exp.  I couldn't believe it!

 

Is this in a hospital setting? Rural? Can you give more info like hours worked/on call duties/# of patients you see?

[Z PA-C]

I'm a new grad UC PA in CA and am starting at $60/hr. Some people in my class are starting at 65/hr in ER. But the average seems to be more around 50-55

[Boatswain2PA]

Want more money?  Get out of the over-saturated major cities that have multiple PA/NP programs.

I just saw an ad for a rural FP (with ED coverage) position, accepting new grads, that listed $100-$140K base + productivity....and this is in a VERY low cost area.

 

I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would want to be a PA in NYC....

[Marinejiujitsu]

If anyone is going to ER, I would endure the suck pay at a county/teaching hospital then go for the bigger money elsewhere.

 

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[Boatswain2PA]

If anyone is going to ER, I would endure the suck pay at a county/teaching hospital then go for the bigger money elsewhere.

 

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If I am reading your post right you are advocating working at a low pay high volume county/teaching hospital over a rural shop.

 

Why?

[Reality Check 2]

My take on that comment would be that - at least - starting out in a bigger teaching hospital will give a broad base and high volume with lots of support and then build that toolbox of skills and use that to get the more rural job with higher pay.

 

I trained at a huge teaching hospital and then went back as housestaff - pay was actually pretty fair but many years ago. 

 

The sheer number and variety and severity of things I did and saw there gave me a lot of skills to hone and brain storage info that I have applied to each and every job or environment since.

 

I had residents and docs and other PAs and all kinds of teaching support as a new grad and could quite literally see one, do one, teach one. 

 

It was a confidence builder to work with attendings and large numbers or constantly changing staff. I had to really have my poop together to present for specialist and got to do so many procedures. 

 

A priceless experience.

[jysn240]

Haha wow.  Location, location, location.  In NYC a PA would kill for a starting salary of 40 an hour just out of school.   65 an hour? maybe after ten years, unless of course you are in surgery. No just out-of-school PA in their wildest dreams makes more than 85K a year in NYC, in my experience, unless some kind of special circumstance. 100K, maybe after 5-10 years of experience.  Hehe, that's NYC for you...

wow! definitely location!  I would think that a big city with high cost of living would compensate appropriately.  Good thing we're national :)

[jysn240]

Is this in a hospital setting? Rural? Can you give more info like hours worked/on call duties/# of patients you see?

Outpatient, downtown city, five 8hr days, no call, about 9 pt/day for now.  Goal is to see ~20/day. 

[jysn240]

Thanks for the replies everybody!

 

I would like to start driving our compensation up for vets and newbies alike.  My classmate straight out of school pulled a $90/hr outpt cards gig.  I was speechless and internally motivated at the same time!  If we ALL start demanding higher pay things could happen.  The demand for us is up, time for the compensation to follow.  Even with all the opportunities for high pay out there, the limiting factors might be seniority benefits, too anchored with commitments in area, negotiating skills.  I'm just typing things.  Input in greatly appreciated.

 

Another thing I've noticed from my very limited experience job hunting and researching benefits, negotiations, etc. is that you gotta sell yourself with confidence.  Give them a premium product that they'll spend their money on.  As ventana mentioned above, we are able to bill for services rendered.  That's a ton of revenue potential for our license alone.

 

Looking forward to everybody's thoughts,

 

Jysn240

[Marinejiujitsu]

If I am reading your post right you are advocating working at a low pay high volume county/teaching hospital over a rural shop.

 

Why?

Because you are exposed to all the specialists and it teaches you a foundation. Rural sometimes the attendings aren't conditioned to teach due to the environment. Also teaching facilities tend to have quality control meetings where practitioners learn from other practitioners mistakes and develop a standard of care. TIMI scores, ABCD2, proper disposal of a vaginally bleeding pregnancy with no IUP on dispo (most of this wasn't taught in school? Half of the docs that I see in rural areas family Medicine trained and are subpar for the field let alone PAs without residency.

 

 

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[AMD]

Want more money? Get out of the over-saturated major cities that have multiple PA/NP programs.

 

I just saw an ad for a rural FP (with ED coverage) position, accepting new grads, that listed $100-$140K base + productivity....and this is in a VERY low cost area.

 

I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would want to be a PA in NYC....

Cost of living is so high in NYC, I can't understand why the salary is so low.

Confuzzled.

 

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[Boatswain2PA]

Cost of living is so high in NYC, I can't understand why the salary is so low.

Confuzzled.

 

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Basic economics in the form of supply & demand.  Too many programs = too many PA/NPs = reduced wages.

 

Because you are exposed to all the specialists and it teaches you a foundation. Rural sometimes the attendings aren't conditioned to teach due to the environment. Also teaching facilities tend to have quality control meetings where practitioners learn from other practitioners mistakes and develop a standard of care. TIMI scores, ABCD2, proper disposal of a vaginally bleeding pregnancy with no IUP on dispo (most of this wasn't taught in school? Half of the docs that I see in rural areas family Medicine trained and are subpar for the field let alone PAs without residency.

 

 

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I understand your point and don't disagree.  I work a few shifts a month at a busy ED alongside EPs strictly for the privilege of learning from them (yeah, I get paid $70/hr there, but I get paid more in rural shops and I don't work nearly as hard).

 

But your point misses the "training wheels" that PAs, being the 'eternal residents' in these environments, always have on them.  The busy shops I have personal experience in often limit the PAs to  fast track or, when they are on the  main floor, limiting them to seeing the 3-5's.  Plus the psychological limitations of ALWAYS having a supervisor/specialist right there to help can prevent many people from achieving full potential.

 

For example - a priapism in a tertiary center = call uro and they come to the ED.  A priapism in a rural shop, that's a 3+ hour commute to tertiary care, = you can find yourself flushing phenylephrine into the corpus carvernosum yourself.  Same thing with the relatively rare in any other specialty (OB/GYN, ortho, etc).

 

 

[AMD]

Basic economics in the form of supply & demand. Too many programs = too many PA/NPs = reduced wages.

 

I understand your point and don't disagree. I work a few shifts a month at a busy ED alongside EPs strictly for the privilege of learning from them (yeah, I get paid $70/hr there, but I get paid more in rural shops and I don't work nearly as hard).

 

But your point misses the "training wheels" that PAs, being the 'eternal residents' in these environments, always have on them. The busy shops I have personal experience in often limit the PAs to fast track or, when they are on the main floor, limiting them to seeing the 3-5's. Plus the psychological limitations of ALWAYS having a supervisor/specialist right there to help can prevent many people from achieving full potential.

 

For example - a priapism in a tertiary center = call uro and they come to the ED. A priapism in a rural shop, that's a 3+ hour commute to tertiary care, = you can find yourself flushing phenylephrine into the corpus carvernosum yourself. Same thing with the relatively rare in any other specialty (OB/GYN, ortho, etc).

 

 

Boston, and Massachusetts, is full of PA schools, but the salary range is 90 to 107. Has steadily risen for years. I think PAs in the NYC market have taken low wages and have essentially done this to themselves.

They didn't know their worth, and have not renegotiated well follwing. So now every new PA to the area suffers. SMH.

 

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[Boatswain2PA]

Boston, and Massachusetts, is full of PA schools, but the salary range is 90 to 107. Has steadily risen for years. I think PAs in the NYC market have taken low wages and have essentially done this to themselves.

They didn't know their worth, and have not renegotiated well follwing. So now every new PA to the area suffers. SMH.

 

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Seems like many NYC PAs talk about $45-$60/hour, which is $90-$120K a year, so seems on par with the numbers you give for Boston area.

 

Another problem is the enormous COST of PA school in Boston area.  I retired from military while in Boston so looked at going to .MCPHS in Worcester.  Even with my GI Bill it was going to cost me $52K to go there (plus COL).  Another school on my list (I still have my old decision-matrix spreadsheet) was LaMoyne College in Syracuse, NY....would have costed me $15K (after GI bill).

 

Meanwhile I had about six programs I was looking into that would have been FREE using my GI bill...none of them in MidAtlantic, New England or CA.  Wound up going to one of the free programs.

 

Just another snapshot of how expensive NY/Bos corridor is.  I just don't see why anyone would want to live there, but that's me.

[PC2ED]

Haha wow.  Location, location, location.  In NYC a PA would kill for a starting salary of 40 an hour just out of school.   65 an hour? maybe after ten years, unless of course you are in surgery. No just out-of-school PA in their wildest dreams makes more than 85K a year in NYC, in my experience, unless some kind of special circumstance. 100K, maybe after 5-10 years of experience.  Hehe, that's NYC for you...

 

Here in NYC, I know lots of people just-out-of-school making > 85K/year.  In fact, 120K to be precise in medicine (NYHQ).

my GF is at 115K (2yrs experience).

I just made one year in ER, 7 days ago, and making 105K (started at 96K).

 

it doesn't take 5 yrs to reach 100k here in NYC based on my experience and the cohort of people I know that are making this much within 2-3yrs.

 

 

To whoever is reading this and happens to practice in NYC:

 

We PAs are money making "machines". if you are full-time somewhere and making <95K after 1 yr out of school, you seriously need to look elsewhere for a job or ask for a raise.

 

if you are straight out of school, don't accept anything <90K 

 

---

 

As far as the AAPA salary report is concerned, I was looking at it last night and realized that only ~7,000-8,000  of PAs responded in 2015 to the survey! That is not a big sample size at all.   

 

 

 

 

queens

[PC2ED]

I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would want to be a PA in NYC....

family reasons, lifestyle reasons, many many more reasons...

 

plus there's nowhere like NYC.

[Guest JMPA]

free rats and cocker roaches

[PC2ED]

Meanwhile I had about six programs I was looking into that would have been FREE using my GI bill...none of them in MidAtlantic, New England or CA.  Wound up going to one of the free programs.

 

Just another snapshot of how expensive NY/Bos corridor is.  I just don't see why anyone would want to live there, but that's me.

 

I went through the same process when I was deciding on a program.

 

some people like the sound of "private college" better than city/state college, and then later complain about 120K in debt, haha. 

 

Those students I precept, I hear them all the time. Then when asked how come they didn't consider city/state colleges, the faces and the excuses they make...lol...are indeed worth 120k in debt.

 

 

SUNY and CUNY colleges in NY/NYC will cost you <12k a year in tuition (not including dorming/renting)! 

[Boatswain2PA]

family reasons, lifestyle reasons, many many more reasons...

 

plus there's nowhere like NYC.

For some perspective:

 

I'm going to gross about $200K this year.   The cost-of-liiving in the city where I live is about 40% of New York City.  According to the Bankrate calculator (http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-living-calculator.aspx?s_kwcid=AL!1325!10!32176728596!300100282063&ef_id=VVXjLQAAAWmgYiDF%3a20160924005205%3as)  to maintain the same quality of living I have here, I would have to make $325,000 a year in New York City (Brooklyn).

 

Inverting that, if I made $200K a year in Brooklyn, I would only have to make $46K a year here to have the same standard of living.  That is about what the average household income is in my area.

 

So, I'm making double the money, in a place with only 40% of the COL of NYC.  

 

I agree that there is no place like NYC.  But if I were to love the traffic, I could afford to go visit for a few weeks every quarter.

 

Instead we are shopping for about 80 acres of paradise to build our dream home on.  Meanwhile we vacation 4 times a year (Cancun, Lake of the Ozarks, and Maine already this year).

[Alison22]

For some perspective:

 

I'm going to gross about $200K this year. The cost-of-liiving in the city where I live is about 40% of New York City. According to the Bankrate calculator (http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-living-calculator.aspx?s_kwcid=AL!1325!10!32176728596!300100282063&ef_id=VVXjLQAAAWmgYiDF%3a20160924005205%3as) to maintain the same quality of living I have here, I would have to make $325,000 a year in New York City (Brooklyn).

 

Inverting that, if I made $200K a year in Brooklyn, I would only have to make $46K a year here to have the same standard of living. That is about what the average household income is in my area.

 

So, I'm making double the money, in a place with only 40% of the COL of NYC.

 

I agree that there is no place like NYC. But if I were to love the traffic, I could afford to go visit for a few weeks every quarter.

 

Instead we are shopping for about 80 acres of paradise to build our dream home on. Meanwhile we vacation 4 times a year (Cancun, Lake of the Ozarks, and Maine already this year).

Wow, that's impressive. What specialty do you work in?

 

 

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