Is this a reasonable EM offer for new grad??

[a.feilke14]

Hello everyone!

 

I am a newly minted PA-C, recently offered a job in emergency medicine...here are the preliminary benefits which were discussed with a recruiter. Do you guys mind chiming in with advice/suggestions on whether or not this may be a good first job?

 

- Level III Trauma Center with annual volume close to 33,000

- 12-12hr shifts per month w/ 24hr APP and Physician coverage

- Annual Salary: $97K

- $4,000 CME allowance

- $7,000 for relocation expenses

- Medical, eye, and dental insurance

- 401K with 5% match

- All recertification expenses paid for

- NON PTO ELIGIBLE - all vacation time including CME is expected to occur on days off

 

Seems like a pretty good deal to me. The only thing I am concerned about is the no-PTO policy. I understand this is pretty standard for ER and hospitalist work. I am single, and a new grad so I don't mind working hard, but I also do not want to be taken advantage of. Is this a big deal, or not something worth turning down the job for? I don't want to miss out on a great opportunity...

 

Thanks for the input. I really appreciate it!

-Amanda

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

That very much depends on how much control you have over your schedule.

 

Seems like a good deal except I would have to have vacation, at least a couple week in this situation where you are likely just doing 3 days per week. Or give me a bigger salary than 97k so I don't feel it so hard when I don't work for 2 weeks. Do they not offer you sick time either? That's a big no IMO.

[mgriffiths]

I guess the thing that doesn't make sense to me in regards to this no PTO for ED/hospitalist positions is that you don't end up working less hours generally.  I am not familiar with "24hr APP and physician coverage," is this more hours worked?

 

Either way, 12 shifts per month is 144 shifts per year, or 1728 hours worked.  If broken down into 50 work weeks, that's ~35hrs/week which is considered full time.  There's no excuse to not get PTO.

 

So, if I wasn't going to get PTO, then as LTJGonealPAC said I would want a higher salary.  Also, can you structure your shifts so you can get a full week or two off at a time.  This would be terrible as you would have to probably work 6 days in a row to get one week off, but is it even allowed?

 

Otherwise the offer seems to be in line with others I've seen.

[EMEDPA]

97K for a new grad with 4k cme and 5% match is good. no pto is not great. I have worked in em for 20 years as a pa at many sites and always got pto and sick leave for full time hrs.

[treejay]

Not only is no PTO not great, it is not acceptable IMO.  As a salaried professional, PTO is a basic barebones benefit that nearly every job has.  Especially a challenging high stakes job like EM.  I think we as a profession need to be calling out and pushing back on offers without PTO

[cinntsp]

Hospitalist here - I get 4 weeks PTO + 1 week CME.

[tunafish]

12-12hr shifts a month is not even close to full time like 40hrs a week. 40hr a week is 14.44 12hr shifts a months. So there is 2.4 shifts or 28.8hr of "paid time off" built into the salary given those 97K is per annum and paid over 12 months (check on that since some places would give you 97K and your hourly rate but based on 40hr week). So over 12 months there will be 43.2 8 hour days that are paid and given. It WILL account for all holidays, week CME and and 4weeks of vacation time. If you have a good control over your schedule and a mice group willing to swap shifts - this is an awesome proposition.

[tunafish]

Hospitalist here - I get 4 weeks PTO + 1 week CME.

Often hospitalists work 7on - 7off. think how much more work there is. in any given 28 days you work 14 shifts and its not even a full month.

[Will352ns]

I don't think the PTO is that big a deal. You work 12 days a month, any competent scheduler can work in 2 weeks off and still meet your hours. Especially if you plan a trip that begins in one month and ends in another. I am contracted for 140 hrs a month and took a 20 day vacation this summer and didn't use PTO, between 2 months. No PTO used. Ask how the do their schedules...are they willing to work with you.

[cinntsp]

Often hospitalists work 7on - 7off. think how much more work there is. in any given 28 days you work 14 shifts and its not even a full month.

 

Yeah, I work 7/7 and will hopefully be switching to 10/10 soon.

[PC2ED]

I wasn't fresh out of school when I got my ER job. I was one year out with family med experience.

 

my package was (in NYC):

 

 - $96,000/year

 - 1 week CME (40hrs) w/ $2300 allowance

 -  PTO is 19.333hrs accumulated per month (232hrs/year or 5.8 weeks PTO); could roll over max 40hrs every following year if I have leftover PTO hrs

 -  Eye, Dental, Medical coverage

 -  403b w/ 4% match

 -  3 12hrs-shifts a week (36hrs of work per week), any day of the week.

 

 

that was exactly 1yr and 8 days ago. 

I'm now @ 105K

---

 

it all depends on what you truly wants. NO pto sucks, and it sucks even more that you have to use your off days for vaca.

that's like telling someone who works 5 days a week for a total of 40hrs to use his/her Saturdays and Sundays for vacation. keep in mind you'll work 36hrs/week and your work hrs may overlap in term of days (like 1p-1a shift or a 7p-7a shift).

 

One thing for sure is, for you to really get a good amount of days free for any decent vacation trip (7+ days kinda trips) you'll have to be on for 3 successive days then off for 8 days and then work the last 3 days. You won't even be able to take a 14-day trip mate.

 

bottom line, PTO and sick days are a MUST for a full-timer.

[PC2ED]

12-12hr shifts a month is not even close to full time like 40hrs a week.

 

Full time is 35-40hrs/week.

 

I'm f/t in my job and work 36hrs/week.

[EMEDPA]

Full time is 35-40hrs/week.

 

I'm f/t in my job and work 36hrs/week.

my new job is FT at 30 hrs/week with full bennies. 

[tunafish]

Full time is 35-40hrs/week.

 

I'm f/t in my job and work 36hrs/week.

 

salary or hourly rate? If rate, are you paid for 36hours a week or 40 hours a week?

[gbrothers98]

Amanda

This is a good package.

The usual work year is 2080 hours.

You are contracted for 1728 if the 12x12 is in effect.

My last job this is how we did it, you are contracted for hours worked.

No PTO or ETO bank, you either work or you are off to do whatever. I do think an organization has to keep funds available at a certain level if offering PTO or ETO.

If you do the math, you have almost 9 weeks off a year, much better than those wanting PTO/ETO and sick/personal days.

Plus it allows significant flexibility in scheduling to enable you and your colleagues time off as an earlier poster stated.

This model fits EM, a 24/7/365 service.

The downside or further questions for you:

If you do work more than 40 hrs a week, do you get OT? If so, what is the OT rate? Our outfit gave OT if a. you were over the 12 hr shift b. exceeded the 12 shifts per month. But we could work up to 5 shifts a week due to covering others.

Since there is 24 hr coverage, do you get a shift differential? For a night shift this should be ranging from 10-25% of your base rate.

BTW, your base rate is $56 per hour.

My only advice to you is to ask for 100k. It is only 3k more than what they are offering and it is better to start high rather than pay catch up later after you are working a few years.

Biggest question of all for you as a new grad:

Do they have an onboarding program for you to get you up to speed in this environment?

Here is an insight concerning what you should be seeking:

http://epmonthly.com/article/pa-training-oversight-model-worth-copying/

Good luck.

George