the recertification mess

[sillycibin]

Looks like NCCPA really overplayed their hand when they tried to impose ridiculous and onerous recertification requirements and the AAPA looks emboldened by the backlash and support they have received:

 

http://www.mdedge.com/clinicianreviews/article/112106/health-policy/pas-should-focus-patient-care-not-unnecessary-testing?utm_source=Clin_CR_eTOC-PA_091316&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Why%20AAPA%20Disagrees%20With%20NCCPA%20Recertification%20Proposal

 

We could see the end of the NCCPA and the end of recertification testing for our profession.  We can only hope.  My state license doesn't even require I recertify.  You only need to be certified on initial issuance of the license and then do your CME.

 

 

[Reality Check 2]

Looks like NCCPA really overplayed their hand when they tried to impose ridiculous and onerous recertification requirements and the AAPA looks emboldened by the backlash and support they have received:

 

http://www.mdedge.com/clinicianreviews/article/112106/health-policy/pas-should-focus-patient-care-not-unnecessary-testing?utm_source=Clin_CR_eTOC-PA_091316&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Why%20AAPA%20Disagrees%20With%20NCCPA%20Recertification%20Proposal

 

We could see the end of the NCCPA and the end of recertification testing for our profession.  We can only hope.  My state license doesn't even require I recertify.  You only need to be certified on initial issuance of the license and then do your CME.

I cannot stress enough that those who want to completely obliterate any sort of recert that you may NOT be able to get hospital privileges or insurance reimbursement unless you have CURRENT NATIONAL CERTIFICATION.

 

So, before recert is abolished - there needs to be some research into what the ramifications are.

 

You cannot use the "C" in your title unless you are currently certified. If you don't have a C behind your name, many organizations will not employ a PA, privilege a PA or get paid for said PA to see patients.

 

If a doc has to stay board certified, then we do too. We are trained on a medical model and align ourselves with physicians. 

 

The current recert procedures suck wind but they are all we have. Before we go killing things - let's look at the potential down stream negatives.

 

We have to have something that reasonably measures a PA's abilities and competencies - CME is not it.

 

I am currently thankful for the loss of the stupid PI and SA CME and think it is a baby step to bigger changes.

[BruceBanner]

I almost wonder if I should wait until 2018 to recert, see how this mess pans out.

[SHU-CH]

As Reality said above, it is not in your interest to not have some kind of certification. There is value in having an outside party attest to the fact that you have an adequate knowledge base. I'm not sure anyone thinks a multiple choice exam is the best means of testing this but until something better comes along it is what we have.

 

Neonatology PAs in NJ were having a hard time for a while because nurse practitioners could get certified in neonatology and PAs could not. I'm not sure how it shook out in the end, but some jobs were lost.

[overthehorizen]

I cannot stress enough that those who want to completely obliterate any sort of recert that you may NOT be able to get hospital privileges or insurance reimbursement unless you have CURRENT NATIONAL CERTIFICATION.

 

So, before recert is abolished - there needs to be some research into what the ramifications are.

 

You cannot use the "C" in your title unless you are currently certified. If you don't have a C behind your name, many organizations will not employ a PA, privilege a PA or get paid for said PA to see patients.

 

If a doc has to stay board certified, then we do too. We are trained on a medical model and align ourselves with physicians. 

 

The current recert procedures suck wind but they are all we have. Before we go killing things - let's look at the potential down stream negatives.

 

We have to have something that reasonably measures a PA's abilities and competencies - CME is not it.

 

I am currently thankful for the loss of the stupid PI and SA CME and think it is a baby step to bigger changes.

"You cannot use the "C" in your title unless you are currently certified. If you don't have a C behind your name, many organizations will not employ a PA, privilege a PA or get paid for said PA to see patients.

 

 

If a doc has to stay board certified, then we do too. We are trained on a medical model and align ourselves with physicians. "

 

I agree that we need to proceed with caution. It has often been said in the forum that a strategic plan for our profession would greatly advance our members over the next several decades. We do appear to be reacting swiftly to changes rather than shaping those changes. I do wonder whether we should continue to profess an "alignment" with Physicians that doesn't exist in any way at all. The notion of "training in the medical model"  and the PA enjoy a closer, unique relationship to Physicians seems anachronistic. NPs appear to enjoy reimbursement and hospital privileges while simultaneously gaining a competitive advantage against the PA by their independence.  With the lack of Physician support for our profession and the advancing independence of NPs, it may be time to stop referring to Physicians as persons with whom we are "aligned" or "collaborating with." By changing our language in the forum and in our practice, we can begin to lay a groundwork for separating our profession from the Physicians who are hostile to the advancement of the PA. NPs don't retest but enjoy increasing gains professionally. Let's stop doing more work for less money, less respect, and less practice rights.

[Reality Check 2]

Just don't burn the bridge you are standing on.

 

If we don't keep friendly with docs then we run the risk of becoming unemployed, uncertified professionals with no friends and no where to go......................

 

Baby Steps

 

Change some certification, work for independence. Don't barnstorm unless you have a backup plan - and there isn't one in our case.

[Guest JMPA]

I earned my C with PANCE, why do i need to keep retesting? was the original pance not enough? why should we need to keep endlessly testing to maintain a pance status? why not once certified, certified for life? will the overtesting burden cost this profession?

why should my license and my livelyhood depend on repeat unecessary stressfull retesting that has not been proven to add to better patient outcomes? i loose my certification i loose my license and my job! do i want to continue to live my life with this profession knowing that a graded exam can cost me my job, marriage, and family and all that i own?

[Reality Check 2]

I earned my C with PANCE, why do i need to keep retesting? was the original pance not enough? why should we need to keep endlessly testing to maintain a pance status? why not once certified, certified for life? will the overtesting burden cost this profession?

 

Docs have to retest every 10 years for board certification.

Hospitals do not credential uncertified providers. Insurance companies do not pay uncertified/credentialed providers.

Companies and organizations do not generally hire docs without board certification and not PAs either.

 

We have to have something.

I do not want once tested PAs running about for years on end without some measure of basic knowledge and skills.

CME doesn't do it.

 

If we want to be taken seriously in the medical community then we need to have a measure by which we show our retained skills and knowledge base.

 

AND, it IS ingrained in society after 50 years and we would have to revamp every set of state laws, get insurance and credentialing services on board, change millions of hospital and organization bylaws and HOPE everyone buys in.

 

I am NOT in any way saying our current system is ok or efficient or not costly but we can't just abandon it.

 

The whole system will fall apart if we just dump it. 

 

Baby steps.... changes.... support our profession.... public confidence and measures of competency

 

I don't mind certifying every 10 years and am thankful the crummy PI/SA CME is gone. 

 

FIRST STEP. Now a little more.

[ventana]

Retesting is going to be required to protect society - it comes with having AMAZING power to help or hurt people

 

It helps our profession

 

We just just need to come up with a reasonable time line - I think 10 years is okay, and a reasonable test

[rev ronin]

More like--if we're going to KEEP retesting, when no one else has to, why isn't it on the marquee of PA ads?

 

"Wouldn't you like to know your provider is still competent?  Only PAs have mandated national board re-testing.  Physicians don't.  Nurse practitioners don't, either.  You should entrust your care to a provider who does both self-directed continuing education AND nationally standardized retesting. Your health, and that of your loved ones, is too important to leave to a provider who never re-tests"

[Joelseff]

Retesting is going to be required to protect society - it comes with having AMAZING power to help or hurt people

 

It helps our profession

 

We just just need to come up with a reasonable time line - I think 10 years is okay, and a reasonable test

And I propose on Recertification years the CME should be waived... ????

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[mmiller3]

Just don't burn the bridge you are standing on.

 

If we don't keep friendly with docs then we run the risk of becoming unemployed, uncertified professionals with no friends and no where to go......................

 

Baby Steps

 

Change some certification, work for independence. Don't barnstorm unless you have a backup plan - and there isn't one in our case.

 

This is ridiculous. The majority of physicians I know couldn't care less if you are a PA or an NP; they hold no allegiance to APPs, tolerate us as long as we help them, but would turn on us in a second if they thought we were encroaching on their turf or hindering their salary. This outdated notion that we as PAs share any bond with physicians needs to die, because it just doesn't exist anywhere I have seen.

[Reality Check 2]

This is ridiculous. The majority of physicians I know couldn't care less if you are a PA or an NP; they hold no allegiance to APPs, tolerate us as long as we help them, but would turn on us in a second if they thought we were encroaching on their turf or hindering their salary. This outdated notion that we as PAs share any bond with physicians needs to die, because it just doesn't exist anywhere I have seen.

We still have to be certified or credentialed. Just the way it has to be.

My years have shown stronger affiliation with docs than you have experienced.

Mine count on me and KNOW my value. I do nothing but help them in the end.

[TWR]

Reality Check, You can't be in Texas!!

[Reality Check 2]

Reality Check, You can't be in Texas!!

Left Texas 20 yrs ago.

Washington state

[True Anomaly]

Reality Check, You can't be in Texas!!

Not all experiences in Texas are the same

[slolar]

I don't know what was wrong with the generalist test we all take every 6-10 years.  Sure it was annoying and stressful, but not too onerous.  The cost was not too prohibitive.  Then they added on these ridiculous SA and PI improvements.  Then they added on these ridiculous CAQs.  THEN they wanted to add a take home test every two year.  Nothing but a money grab by the NCCPA, IMHO.

Let's go back to good old-fashioned, anxiety inducing test every 10 years like the MDs and call it a day.

 

Sara

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

I don't know what was wrong with the generalist test we all take every 6-10 years. Sure it was annoying and stressful, but not too onerous. The cost was not too prohibitive. Then they added on these ridiculous SA and PI improvements. Then they added on these ridiculous CAQs. THEN they wanted to add a take home test every two year. Nothing but a money grab by the NCCPA, IMHO.

Let's go back to good old-fashioned, anxiety inducing test every 10 years like the MDs and call it a day.

 

Sara

I like this idea, only for the selfish reason that I won't ever take it again.

[krisephillips]

I don't know what was wrong with the generalist test we all take every 6-10 years.  Sure it was annoying and stressful, but not too onerous.  The cost was not too prohibitive.  Then they added on these ridiculous SA and PI improvements.  Then they added on these ridiculous CAQs.  THEN they wanted to add a take home test every two year.  Nothing but a money grab by the NCCPA, IMHO.

Let's go back to good old-fashioned, anxiety inducing test every 10 years like the MDs and call it a day.

 

Sara

I second that motion.

[RuralER/Ortho]

I second that motion.

Third.... does that make it official?

[BruceBanner]

This is ridiculous. The majority of physicians I know couldn't care less if you are a PA or an NP; they hold no allegiance to APPs, tolerate us as long as we help them, but would turn on us in a second if they thought we were encroaching on their turf or hindering their salary. This outdated notion that we as PAs share any bond with physicians needs to die, because it just doesn't exist anywhere I have seen.

 

Yep.

 

The "bond" exists insofar as we are making their lives easier and not encroaching on their compensation. I work with 15 docs. Everyone is great until A) you do something (or dont do something) they way THEY would have done it, or B) you start to push back against what ever they are punting your way.

 

Certification will not go away. I kind of hope it does, but if it's every 10 years I can live with that. That's only 2 recerts a career for most people.

[ventana]

Yep.

 

The "bond" exists insofar as we are making their lives easier and not encroaching on their compensation. I work with 15 docs. Everyone is great until A) you do something (or dont do something) they way THEY would have done it, or B) you start to push back against what ever they are punting your way.

 

Certification will not go away. I kind of hope it does, but if it's every 10 years I can live with that. That's only 2 recerts a career for most people.

 

Hence why we need to unhandcuff ourselves from the physicians!

 

Why can an established PA supervise a new grad?  Think SLP - they have a one year (first year out of school) where they must be "supervised" by a more senior SLP  Simple, easy, seems like a great idea.  Notice they are not supervised by a Doc (is illogical) as in our case - lets just cut the cord!

[Reality Check 2]

We have to play the games though and unhinge ourselves systematically and gracefully otherwise receive their wrath.

 

We have to show our capabilities and ability to be independent through careful analysis of efficacy, accuracy, cost effectiveness and get support while stressing the NEEDS of the US health system and the deficits we face without showing blame on the physicians or residencies, etc.

 

We have to stand on our own merits and avoid throwing any barbs.

 

If we don't tread carefully and remain collegial - we will be unemployed and hated.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

We have to play the games though and unhinge ourselves systematically and gracefully otherwise receive their wrath.

 

We have to show our capabilities and ability to be independent through careful analysis of efficacy, accuracy, cost effectiveness and get support while stressing the NEEDS of the US health system and the deficits we face without showing blame on the physicians or residencies, etc.

 

We have to stand on our own merits and avoid throwing any barbs.

 

If we don't tread carefully and remain collegial - we will be unemployed and hated.

I agree we need to be calm and rational. We also need to emphasize the points you laid out. Standing up won't leave us unemployed though. First, hospital administration will be on our side just like they were with CRNAs when it came to opting out of the supervision requirement for Medicare part B payment. They would love it if we could be directly reimbursed and they could hire more of us with less paperwork hassles. Second, any action taken by a medical board would be handily and gleefully taken care of by the FTC who are waiting for us to file a complaint for restraint of trade.

 

I'm not saying be belligerent with individual physicians, but standing up to the establishment professionally shouldn't be avoided.

 

Edited for so many errors it was embarrassing.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

I don't know what was wrong with the generalist test we all take every 6-10 years. Sure it was annoying and stressful, but not too onerous. The cost was not too prohibitive. Then they added on these ridiculous SA and PI improvements. Then they added on these ridiculous CAQs. THEN they wanted to add a take home test every two year. Nothing but a money grab by the NCCPA, IMHO.

Let's go back to good old-fashioned, anxiety inducing test every 10 years like the MDs and call it a day.

 

Sara

Agreed. A test every ten years is not that onerous. These new requirements have no evidence in safety or demonstration of knowledge.