Jump to content

Need some serious advice (physician harassment)


Recommended Posts

Ladies and Gents, 

 

I come here to seek some serious advice regarding some serious issues I have endured while working.  A quick background, I was/am a new grad from 2015, went into CV Surgery, 5 physicians, 4 PA's including me.  I was able to pick up EVH fast (2 months) as well as ICU stuff and am still to this day honing that skill and all of my knowledge etc...

 

The attending I am assigned to has belittled, badgered me, scolded me, sent very condescending messages, placed blame on me for many things I have not done.  He abuses the relationship and its not uncommon knowledge.  I have at least 60-70 texts from him telling me things like "Is it that hard to reply" regarding a text message, and 4 minutes went by before I was able to reply...I was removing a chest tube at the time.  Another instance was yelling at me in the ICU and telling me I am a terrible PA because I had not pulled the RA/LA lines 24 hours after an LVAD implant, best part was the Cardiologist behind him who went to bat for me when I was called to HR to explain the situation.  At that time the group placed me with another surgeon who soon left the group, so I was placed back with this guy.  

 

I have decided to part ways with this organization and have been recruited by another CV Surgery group thanks to our Anesthesia folks who service their group.  I still have 60 days left on my contract.  The day to day operations have become worse.  The other PA's won't gt involved because they will continue to work around him. 

 

It is well known in the hospital that this guys care and personality are sub-par, even our senior surgeon who's been in the game since 78 can't stand him.

 

I am asking all of your honest opinions about if I should go to HR and file a report?  I have enough significant texts and instances with people who would gladly vouch for me.  I don't want to be "that guy" but he has made my life hell since June of 2015.  I stuck it out with this undying loyalty to this guy and this place for over a year, and it affected my home life and professional life as well.  I am not perfect, I make mistakes, I am learning, I am always trying to be better than the day before.  Honest opinions would help tremendously.  

 

Thanks in advance

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have 60 days left and another job lined up.  What are they going to do if you tell this guy to quit being a sanctimonious jackass right to his face....fire you?  Okay, then you get a couple of months of unpaid vacation as you get ready to throw yourself into your next job.

Don't let yourself be abused.  If he starts talking to you in an abusive manner, put your hand up in a symbol for him to "stop", tell him that he is not allowed to talk to you in such a disrespectful manner, and he can come find you to discuss the issue when he can act like an adult...then turn and walk away.

Tell the scheduler that you will not be scrubbing in with him again.  Period. Give it to them in writing.  Then if they schedule you for surgery don't show up.

 

Establish some personal boundaries and then firmly but politely enforce them.  Don't let yourself be abused like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unlike in TV crime shows, in the business world, there is no real advantage to shooting a bad boss -- other than perhaps short-term gratification. Somewhere, somehow, you may meet again so there is no advantage for you to leave him with a reason to stand in your way somewhere down the road. And, no matter what you do, short of him violating the law, your doc will not be punished; he is making money for the system and clearly you are not the first person to have a problem with him.

 

You will soon be gone. You should get a chance to say something during your outbriefing with HR. And, if he left anything official in your personnel file, please feel free to provide a written appeal (that you wouldn't mind reading without cringing in 20 years!)

 

Move on and think about your next job. You will probably be more aware of group dynamics when you interview in the future.

 

Good luck!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you have endured way more than you should have and for long enough. I would go, no run, to HR assuming your rendition of him is accurate and see what they say. Why do they keep this sanctimonious a.....e? I would not endure for 1 more shift. You may eventually need an attorney but if you are accurate, he is a classic workplace bully and there are severe ramifications for that. Go for it. You are not burning any bridges by reporting him as I don't think you are going to use him as a reference!!!! Apparently other members of the group have issues with him as well. Be respectful and professional but do not take no for an answer!!!!!!!!!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator

I might provide a different opinion

 

 

I would have and "off the record" conversation" with HR

 

Tell them you will NOT file a complaint, but you want them to know what has been going on, can provide details as you see fit

 

 

 

There is NO excuse for this type of behavior, and everyone should be standing up to it - the courts have come down FIRMLY against this......

 

 

don't do anything that might hurt your long term professional reputation, but let HR know why you are leaving....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the ortho surgeons that I wouldn't go work with was about this bad.

 

The senior scrub tech was also my FP patient. She had enough of his abusive behavior.

 

The WHOLE OR continually heard and witnessed his behavior. Everyone shuddered but no one would stand up to him.

 

The tech had enough one day when he insulted, belittled and degraded her yet again.

 

She looked over the anesthesia curtain and politely but loudly asked if the patient was stable. Anesthesia said Yes.

 

She looked the surgeon in the eye, put an instrument in his hand and told him he could do for himself as she wasn't going to be abused any further.

 

She walked away from the table, broke scrub and left - went straight to the OR head and filed the written complaint.

 

No profanity, did not endanger the patient and made her point. 

 

So, don't have to shoot someone but you can somewhat effectively call someone out for truly &HITTY behavior and maintain professional status and standards.

 

I would go to HR - ask to provide them with "anonymous" information and see how they respond. 

 

I would NOT scrub with this idiot, round with him, etc. Distance oneself and ride out the last 60 days unless you want to confront as above. Silence can also speak volumes.

 

Be comfortable with it. Be prepared to explain the situation in the future to someone who might witness or be aware and avoid personal attacks and stick with the complete lack of professional behavior aspect. 

 

I don't do doormat well and have had to learn to temper my approach so as to make a point but not stab someone in public. Tough edge to balance sometimes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So what happens if you break your contract and leave before 60 days? Is there any financial penalty? Will it affect your upcoming employment?

 

Inclined to agree with UGoLong--very unlikely this guy will be punished unless he crosses legal lines, since he generates revenue and has obviously been a d!ck to many others besides you.

 

I think it comes down to what level of confrontation you are comfortable with. There are several ways you can handle it. 1) would be a direct confrontation with the surgeon, which could turn into an altercation or one of you losing your cool; 2) would be to take all your evidence to HR, explain the synopsis of your purgatory with this guy, and why you are leaving out of contract. 3) would be more indirect confrontation like refusing to scrub with him, etc....I'm not really sure of the culture where you work and how that would go over.

 

I would favor the evidence/HR approach. It may burn him, but the important thing is it is unlikely to affect your next job if you left out of contract for documented unprofessional behavior.

 

If it were me and I had the documentation you do, I'd drop it off to HR and leave immediately. Life is too short to be treated like garbage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lots of advice given regarding your options.

 

The MOST important thing is for YOU to understand that you DO have options.  Usually people who put up with any kind of abuse only do so because they don't feel like they have any options.

You have LOTS of options here, including the option of maintaining the status quo and quietly walking out the door.  That's certainly an acceptable option as long as you don't let it eat you up inside.

About the only BAD option here is to lose your cool and verbally attack him (or worse, physically, but that goes without saying).   

Good luck, and huge congrats on your new job!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks all for the replies.  Today was very off after he sent the really demeaning text.  I kept distance and silence, scrubbed with another surgeon, and unfortunately did all of his rounds and notes as usual.  There's one PA in our group that is always the optimist and very level headed, has done this for 16 years plus.  The other, shes about as pompous as her attending she works with, I don't want to leave them out to dry so to speak and make them pick up the slack, but at the same time I do not want to keep doing favors or work for this excuse for a surgeon.

 

I went ahead and filed a formal complaint with HR.  It is submitted through email first, then face to face with an HR rep at a later date.  The sad part is, I have this undying loyalty to this place and somewhat to him as this was my first job out of training.  It is sad, yes I know.  As far as getting out of my contract, the hospital is on a budget cut and I have about 6 weeks of vacation that have not been used, and I can either take them, or leave without the payout (they are not paying out vacation if you resign your position).  

 

I spoke with management on about a severance package, but the likelihood of that is about the same as winning the lottery, but I never know.  I have taken the high road and kept my head down and scrubbed with other people lately and covered one of our sister facilities...which he hates because I am not there to do all of his work so he can sit in his office and plan vacations and so forth.  I have cases lined up at this facility for the next  weeks.  The other attendings are begging me to come there FT.  

 

I ran into him, didn't say a word, just a smile on my face.  As bad as I want to be an ass, and pop-off to him, I haven't.  My evidence against him is enough, but it's up to the hospital to do something about it when the time comes.  59 days and counting.... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And, no matter what you do, short of him violating the law, your doc will not be punished; he is making money for the system and clearly you are not the first person to have a problem with him.

 

Clearly he IS violating the law. Even in spite of that, if he is a rainmaker for the facility they will be reluctant to take action. The good thing is that it sounds like you have good documentation, and there are tons of witnesses to this behavior. This jackass thinks he is still living in the 1970s. This crap will not fly today.

 

 

I think you have endured way more than you should have and for long enough. I would go, no run, to HR assuming your rendition of him is accurate and see what they say. Why do they keep this sanctimonious a.....e? I would not endure for 1 more shift. You may eventually need an attorney but if you are accurate, he is a classic workplace bully and there are severe ramifications for that. Go for it. You are not burning any bridges by reporting him as I don't think you are going to use him as a reference!!!! Apparently other members of the group have issues with him as well. Be respectful and professional but do not take no for an answer!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Workplace bullying and harassment are federal offenses, with substantial penalties for both the offender and the institution. If the institution does not take swift action to correct behavior it is made aware of (or even reasonably should have been aware of) it is a very big deal. Tell HR that you will report this to both your state's attorney general's office and to the feds (probably the EEOC).

 

 

I went ahead and filed a formal complaint with HR.  It is submitted through email first, then face to face with an HR rep at a later date.  The sad part is, I have this undying loyalty to this place and somewhat to him as this was my first job out of training.  It is sad, yes I know.  As far as getting out of my contract, the hospital is on a budget cut and I have about 6 weeks of vacation that have not been used, and I can either take them, or leave without the payout (they are not paying out vacation if you resign your position).  

 

I spoke with management on about a severance package, but the likelihood of that is about the same as winning the lottery, but I never know.  I have taken the high road and kept my head down and scrubbed with other people lately and covered one of our sister facilities...which he hates because I am not there to do all of his work so he can sit in his office and plan vacations and so forth.  I have cases lined up at this facility for the next  weeks.  The other attendings are begging me to come there FT.  

 

I ran into him, didn't say a word, just a smile on my face.  As bad as I want to be an ass, and pop-off to him, I haven't.  My evidence against him is enough, but it's up to the hospital to do something about it when the time comes.  59 days and counting.... 

 

Run some of what I said above past HR and you might find they do all kinds of things to ease your pain.

 

The final thing to do is report this jerk to your state board of medicine, or even make an anonymous report to your state's impaired provider program and tell them that he has psychiatric and anger management problems. Make his life a fresh hell for a few months. He will never turn nice, but he might keep his mouth shut. Wouldn;t you love to see the board of medicine require him to take time off work for anger management classes?

 

If you really want to mess with him, send me his phone number. You are far too kind. My response to something like this would be all of the above plus spilling industrial strength aircraft paint stripper on the hood of his undoubtedly expensive vehicle. Also get his email address on as many porn sites as you can.

 

As they said in Rome, "Solve lora infernis!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People are like batteries; they have so much stored energy. Yes, you can fight the guy, etc. But in the end you are going to go somewhere else. Your old employer will not throw a parade for you. And somewhere down the road, unless you make it as a cable TV expert on harrasment, you may find that new, potential employers might avoid you like the plague.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Conversely, this is a vile individual who has probably gone on with this behavior precisely because everyone is willing to ignore it and kick the can down the road - make it someone else's problem.

 

This can be confronted professionally to save people down the road from having to deal with it.

True, but in the end the behavior of employees is the responsibility of management. Make you complaints known to them. Then decide if you want to use your energy getting the heck away from a no-win situation for you or hiring lawyers.

 

In a perfect world, maybe you'd do both. Probably not as you leave your very first job.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For what it's worth, behind doors, one way conversations sometimes do some good - bullies need a figurative or literal punch in the nose to let them know you're not putting up with it.  Behind closed doors keeps people from getting their backs up because there isn't an audience (it's always easier to yell back at these clowns when there are other people around - this shows you're standing up to them face to face with no backup), but it also makes them realize they're actually alone with nobody to defend them.  You don't need to hit someone, but I'll say that I've confronted abusive bosses when I was in the Army where the mere hint that we were alone with nobody to hear the yelling (or inferred smack/thud) is very real and no witnesses + no visible signs of violence = no charges.  I will say I did actually threaten one of my SNCO's once, in a private area in the unit lines, because he was trying to abuse his authority and made the mistake of grabbing my arm; only problems I ever had after that were my personnel assessments...but my blood pressure was a lot lower in those days because I didn't bite my tongue.  I also never went out of my way to help them with anything.

 

Flash forward, I had to have the one way talk with one of my SP's last year for being an overbearing, small minded and actually sometimes dangerous doctor.  I made it very clear that I no longer trusted them, thought they were a horrible teacher, didn't listen to anything I had to say and completely disrespected all my previous experience and as such we wouldn't be having a very cordial working relationship for the remainder of their tenure.  There is another one that is very close to getting a similar lecture - frankly, not a soul in our dept trusts them, they pretty much called me incompetent in front of several staff members despite them being the one that screwed the pooch, they're indecisive, and I refuse to get involved with some of their stuff because they're so afraid of how useless they are that they take it out on others...I'm deliberately letting them fall on their face and refuse to help unless they directly ask...and since they don't feel I'm competent, they're not going to, so win win.  I'm not getting tossed under a bus.

 

In your case, let management know that patient safety depends on team members trusting each other and make it very certain nobody trusts this person - as such, patients are at risk.  Management these days don't give a rat's arse about you, but they will if a case goes sour because Capt Shytehead is letting his borderline personality come out at work and the hospital gets sued as a result.  Dickhead docs = no biggy to management...hospital sued = BIGGY to management.

 

 

SK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator

  As far as getting out of my contract, the hospital is on a budget cut and I have about 6 weeks of vacation that have not been used, and I can either take them, or leave without the payout (they are not paying out vacation if you resign your position).  

 

 

 

 

it is illegal is most states for them to not pay out vacation - it is an earned benefit

 

get your PCP to sign and FMLA paper for stress from this doc and anxiety and burn your six weeks time off and enjoy it!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

management????? you are better off sticking your head in a toiletbowl. i do not believe in walking away and leaving a ripened as----e for some poor soul. Nobody should tolerated this type of abuse at work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds sadly not too uncommon in CV surgery.  Very likely HR and many people at the hospital already know this guy's reputation.  There's someone similar in my area.  Problem is he is most likely private practice and his small group of fellow docs who I'm sure all also have some of the God complex in them will have his back.  Hospital has no leverage against him and cardiothoracic surgery is a major money maker.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would not have an "off the record" conversation with HR. This SOB needs to be dealt with firmly and professionally. Personally I would admire the person who took this egotist to task.. Down the road you will not hurt yourself for standing up for yourself in this situation. If not on the record....It never happened!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Clearly he IS violating the law. Even in spite of that, if he is a rainmaker for the facility they will be reluctant to take action. The good thing is that it sounds like you have good documentation, and there are tons of witnesses to this behavior. This jackass thinks he is still living in the 1970s. This crap will not fly today.

 

 

 

Workplace bullying and harassment are federal offenses, with substantial penalties for both the offender and the institution. If the institution does not take swift action to correct behavior it is made aware of (or even reasonably should have been aware of) it is a very big deal. Tell HR that you will report this to both your state's attorney general's office and to the feds (probably the EEOC).

 

 

 

Run some of what I said above past HR and you might find they do all kinds of things to ease your pain.

 

The final thing to do is report this jerk to your state board of medicine, or even make an anonymous report to your state's impaired provider program and tell them that he has psychiatric and anger management problems. Make his life a fresh hell for a few months. He will never turn nice, but he might keep his mouth shut. Wouldn;t you love to see the board of medicine require him to take time off work for anger management classes?

 

If you really want to mess with him, send me his phone number. You are far too kind. My response to something like this would be all of the above plus spilling industrial strength aircraft paint stripper on the hood of his undoubtedly expensive vehicle. Also get his email address on as many porn sites as you can.

 

As they said in Rome, "Solve lora infernis!"

Hate to tell you this, but it isn't against federal law to harass or bully employees, or to treat them unfairly, unless the harassment is on the basis of age, sex, race, religion, or other prohibited basis, like sexual harassment.  A few states may have enacted antibullying legislation;  however that is different than federal regulation. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to the Physician Assistant Forum! This website uses cookies to ensure you get the best experience on our website. Learn More