NCCPA FLINCHES!

[Boatswain2PA]

“Evidence shows that these types of interactive, high engagement CME activities have a greater impact on practice and performance than more passive types of learning opportunities,” says Morton-Rias. 

 

I'd like to know what kind of evidence shows that, cause I really doubt it.  

[cbrsmurf]

Sorry, I'm a bad reader...

 

Does this mean the CME cat 1 will be worth 50% more, do we still have to do 100 units every 2 years?  What is PI-CME?  

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

What is PI-CME?

Hell. Self analysis study within your practice to assess skills/monitoring parameters.

[MT2PA]

Sorry, I'm a bad reader...

 

Does this mean the CME cat 1 will be worth 50% more, do we still have to do 100 units every 2 years?  What is PI-CME?  

 

All I know is what the article says.

[Reality Check 2]

Yeah ...

 

I've been scratching my head and feverishly looking for "practice Relevant" SA/PI-CME for a few months now...

 

Was planning on dropping $350 for some non-relevant SA CME Monday...!!!

 

Then this blessing comes in the mail.

 

Great...!!!!

 

Now if they just get rid of the PANRE altogether to put PA's closer on par with NPs... PERFECT ...!! 

 

I posted this in another thread but believe it to hold true regarding PANRE.

 

I have been around long enough to see MDs LOSE their board certification mostly based on age and memory issues.

The 10 yr board exam is kind of like retesting driving skills as we age - it helps objectively weed out those who shouldn't be driving anymore.

 

I don't want to see an aging PA become less proficient or fail to keep up with current treatment because our testing becomes ONE AND DONE.

 

I AM close with my SP but moreso - I am in Family Practice for the long haul. I align myself with the AAFP and firmly believe I should be held to their standards.

 

Unless we recert everyone - those who aren't competent or start to fail will not be caught and we increase our liability by not having a national certification process. Folks can practice unmonitored and become dangerous and a pariah to our profession.

 

In an effort to show our commitment to our profession and dedication to staying current on treatment - there has to be an objective measure. CME isn't that hard - it is time consuming and sometimes tedious but is fairly anonymous - it could be done by my kid or a hired hand. The ONLY way to know that I myself, me, in person, has the knowledge and skills of my profession is a test - yep, a test. 

 

So, recert doesn't bother me. I think the NPs are lacking by not having it.

[ohiovolffemtp]

For physicians, keeping board certification and keeping licensure are two different issues.  They can keep their licensure after passing all the steps of USMLE just by doing whatever CME the state(s) they're licensed in require.  Some employers require board certification.  Those boards have individualized requirements.  I work in EM, the boarded docs have to take the exam every 10 years.  However, not all hospitals require board certification so not all physician groups require it.  For example, some hospitals & staffing groups will hire EM experienced FP docs.

 

That's what needs to happen for PA's: decouple licensure maintenance with certification in a specialty if applicable.  Those specialty certifications should come from the relevant specialty groups, e.g. SEMPA for EM PA's.

[Reality Check 2]

For physicians, keeping board certification and keeping licensure are two different issues.  They can keep their licensure after passing all the steps of USMLE just by doing whatever CME the state(s) they're licensed in require.  Some employers require board certification.  Those boards have individualized requirements.  I work in EM, the boarded docs have to take the exam every 10 years.  However, not all hospitals require board certification so not all physician groups require it.  For example, some hospitals & staffing groups will hire EM experienced FP docs.

 

That's what needs to happen for PA's: decouple licensure maintenance with certification in a specialty if applicable.  Those specialty certifications should come from the relevant specialty groups, e.g. SEMPA for EM PA's.

 

The problem with this is that PAs change specialties unlike 95% of physicians. It is a unique aspect of PA profession that a lot of people really like.

If we start to specialize it might make transition harder and I am not sure any one entity can come up with appropriate testing for everything PAs do.

Interventional Rads, Urology, Peds, Peds Onc, Gyn Onc, Ortho, Ortho subspecial, the list goes on and on.

 

Most employers for docs will not take a doc without a board certification - a doc who did one year of residency and nothing more. 

Docs being licensed doesn't mean they get paid by insurance companies. Most I know of require a doc to have a board cert for reimbursement unless employed by a doc in a box as Urgent Care or something. 

 

If we are going to change how we are certified - we need to maintain our flexibility.

 

Unless we have a system that can handle ALL the many specialties and such - we risk having once certified PAs who aren't really keeping up and could be a danger. 

 

In my mind - we have to have something. The "C" to me means that someone does the CME (for what it is worth) AND has passed some sort of level test that ensures they have some modicum of knowledge. A lot of CME is fluff that we pound through to get the hours - usually more frustrating than helpful.

 

Without ANY recertification - I think we look bad and risk bad providers.

 

If docs are going to be boarded every ten years - so should we. We are trained on the medical model. We should align ourselves with that model.

 

YES, I would like to take the AAFP boards without OB and be on the same level with my doc. I am in Family Practice and I should be judged on the same. BUT, If I suddenly wanted to go back to Ortho - what would I do? I need some baseline of my abilities.

 

It doesn't sound logical or viable to take 5-10 board specialty exams so as to maintain flexibility for even a part time job.

 

I don't want to go years without checking a knowledge base for myself or anyone else. 

 

We don't have a perfect system but this is what we have now that keeps us on a national standard. Something NPs don't have.

[Contrarian]

You "Thinking NPs are lacking" because they don't have to test periodically doesn't make it so...

 

Please provide some EVIDENCE that NPs are less capable or more dangerous, or less competent... not just an opinion.

[Reality Check 2]

Contrarian

 

My views on certification are not just about NPs. It is about so much more.

 

I am not basing the overwhelming majority of my beliefs on NPs. I want the PA profession to advance and maintain high standards and follow the medical model that we were trained on.

 

So, enough with the NP stuff. I don't want to be compared to NPs - I am not a nurse and don't nurse. I am a PA.

[LKPAC]

 

Please provide some EVIDENCE that NPs are less capable or more dangerous, or less competent...

 

http://www.physicianassistantforum.com/index.php?/topic/40570-dangerous-new-np/

[Contrarian]

Such a high powered study...!!!

You are kidding right ...???

[glanglois]

Reading this news makes me so happy, and yet sad and disappointed at the same time.  Happy that we wont be required to do this, because of the obstacles imposed, and sad that the fight began at all.  I disagree with those that want to do away with re-certification.  Sure, I hate taking the test too. After almost 30 years in the profession I see value in periodic re-certification.  Historically PAs have had a generalist education, being able to work in any field of medicine.  We are able to change medical specialties very easily and without proving our ability.  If an individual wants to leave a pediatric practice and go to a surgical sub-specialty they can because our certification confers current competence.   Doing away with our certification process will limit our ability to change practice as we wont be able to document recent proficiency. 

 

The NCCPA has historically presented itself as an independent certification organization.  It is recognized by most if not all of the states that require certification for PAs.  The requirements of certification for all healthcare providers changes over time, and rightfully so.  We must all adapt to the changing needs around us, so a self assessment requirement is not totally bad.  We must remember that there are plenty of others that feel they can do our jobs just as well as well as we can.  We need this process to remain credible.

 

Where this becomes a problem for me is that the AAPA has somehow become the master of this mandate.  Virtually all options need to be blessed by them and significant money paid to them.   This sort of takes away the independent nature of certification.  I am sure that the present situation came around with the purest of intentions to better the profession.  And yet I am sure there is plenty of blame to go around along with finger pointing from both sides..  I do not want to be forced into purchasing my CME from any one provider (AAPA).  While I appreciate the contributions of the AAPA t the profession, I really resent being forced into their support.  This should be a voluntary matter.

 

The really unfortunate problem that I see is that these two groups are fighting.  We as PAs pay a large amount of money regularly to both groups to represent our interests and what we get is a pissing match.  Not only are hard working PAs suffering through this turmoil, we are also footing the bill for the fight between two that are supposed to be working for us.  The leadership of both organizations should be ashamed of the example that they set.

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

Our initial validity and uniqueness was the fact that we were a profession that had recertification examinations, unlike other providers. While under the current format I have taken my last exam; I have to say that if you spend ANY time looking at journals, scoping out Medscape from time to time, or subscribe to any journal review service, the PANRE just isn't THAT difficult. Hassle yes. Unreasonable? No. I'd like to see some digital form of the old-school paper scenarios where you work your way through situations with revealing ink markers which then continue to feed you through the algorithm until you do it correctly or you harm/kill the patient. This was part of today's PANCE back in the early 80's.

[Reality Check 2]

Our initial validity and uniqueness was the fact that we were a profession that had recertification examinations, unlike other providers. While under the current format I have taken my last exam; I have to say that if you spend ANY time looking at journals, scoping out Medscape from time to time, or subscribe to any journal review service, the PANRE just isn't THAT difficult. Hassle yes. Unreasonable? No. I'd like to see some digital form of the old-school paper scenarios where you work your way through situations with revealing ink markers which then continue to feed you through the algorithm until you do it correctly or you harm/kill the patient. This was part of today's PANCE back in the early 80's.

 

It has been a good day on the forum and I have run out of "likes" - not sure why there is a limit.

Thank you for the comment and insight - I agree!

[ventana]

The really unfortunate problem that I see is that these two groups are fighting.  We as PAs pay a large amount of money regularly to both groups to represent our interests and what we get is a pissing match.  Not only are hard working PAs suffering through this turmoil, we are also footing the bill for the fight between two that are supposed to be working for us.  The leadership of both organizations should be ashamed of the example that they set.

Oh man, not sure where to start on this one

 

A simple question? Have you been aware of the political battle going on in the AAPA and PA's that work for a living, or the battle that MOC and teh doc'shave fought? Or the hairbrained new certification standards that NCCPA released (honestly I think they tried to copy the Doc's - and that obviously did not work)

 

The reason I ask the above is that I have followed these issues in the past 10 years and have happy that AAPA finally seems to be standing up and listening to the working PA's and gaining a voice. They are starting to. "Represent" us and get the fact that we must advance our profession at every turn or we will be left behind. This is not a quick tit for tat - this is. Probably 30 years of AAPA ignoring the working PA, along with NCCPA, but in the last 3 years AAPA is starting to "get it" and advocate the way they should!

 

I am not trying to flame, but instead just point out this is a. Long time coming, and taking in context of the whole history it is a great thing!~

[Boatswain2PA]

Where this becomes a problem for me is that the AAPA has somehow become the master of this mandate.  Virtually all options need to be blessed by them and significant money paid to them.   This sort of takes away the independent nature of certification.  I am sure that the present situation came around with the purest of intentions to better the profession.  And yet I am sure there is plenty of blame to go around along with finger pointing from both sides..  I do not want to be forced into purchasing my CME from any one provider (AAPA).  While I appreciate the contributions of the AAPA t the profession, I really resent being forced into their support.  This should be a voluntary matter.

 

I missed this....where in all of this chaos is the proposal that we have to get all of our CME from the AAPA??

[EMEDPA]

AAPA has always had to approve (although not accredit)  cme. this is not new.

[rev ronin]

AAPA has always had to approve (although not accredit)  cme. this is not new.

So this is a fantastically devious move on the part of the NCCPA: They've just gotten rid of the PAST decision PAs hated the most, while at the same time undercutting AAPA's revenue stream in doing so.  Well played.

 

Or maybe it wasn't at all targeted at the AAPA...

[True Anomaly]

AAPA has always had to approve (although not accredit)  cme. this is not new.

Except that we can also use AMA cat 1 CME

[EMEDPA]

we can use ama cat 1 credits because aapa says we can.

[glanglois]

I let my AAPA membership lapse over 20 years ago, in great part that I did not feel it represented me as a working PA.  I have remained an NCCPA certified PA by fulfilling the requirements set forth by the NCCPA.  Almost all of my CME credits have been obtained through ACGME accredited options, not through the AAPA. 

 

For the SA/PI component, the way I read the rules was that these credits required approval by the AAPA.  I did not see any independent option listed. This would put the AAPA in a unique situation of having PA's obligated to them for this requirement.  The limited scope and availability of approved activities along with the difficulty in getting new programs approved was a major headache to most of us.

 

One can certainly obtain the balance of CME hours from whatever other source they desire.  I was not aware that the AAPA had to approve all CME, I had understood that the CME was approved by NCCPA.  The AAPA being one recognized organization , as well as others such as the AMA (approved by ACCME), AAFP, or the AOA.

 

The fact that there has been confusion on this is proof that both groups have done a less than optimal job at communicating to those they work for.

[BruceBanner]

I may be wrong but since the AAPA has nothing to do with our actual certification and licensing, they cant categorically "approve" or disapprove CME; since we log our CME with the NCCPA.

 

Anything that is AMA cat 1 is fair game, and likely always will be. You cant say material is ok for physicians but not for PAs...

[Sawyer0978]

Totally agree! It's about time the NCCPA realized that it doesn't know what is BEST for PAs and that the AAPA does! FINALLY. Progress after 50 years!

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

I may be wrong but since the AAPA has nothing to do with our actual certification and licensing, they cant categorically "approve" or disapprove CME; since we log our CME with the NCCPA.

 

Anything that is AMA cat 1 is fair game, and likely always will be. You cant say material is ok for physicians but not for PAs...

 

 

Ah, but they have.  Your prior SA-CME requirement had to be approved by AAPA.  The reason I know this is that I took a RoshReview course and the certification had expired for the course though it was listed as approved at AAPA.  When I contacted NCCPA they said that they only can certify what they receive authorization from AAPA on.  AAPA had to contact NCCPA and RoshReview to ask RR to reissue a valid certificate.  I am not an AAPA member BTW so it had nothing to do with serving a member.

[Sawyer0978]

Seems like NCCPA is doing AAPA a "favor" by allowing them to approve (and develop their own) CME. I am not 100% sure, but I believe that there are several organizations within the healthcare profession where the certification body is housed within the membership body. Good thing NCCPA doesn't require AAPA membership for certification.... Or, maybe that's coming.....