If you could do it all over again

[BruceBanner]

My step mom is a vet oncologist-surgeon and professor at our university. Definitely at the top of her profession; runs a lab, clinical practice, teaches, and consults. But she's 50, and works a TON. She is not the norm....community vets make a very middle-class wage and like others have said vet school is incredibly competitive. In many ways I think they are smarter than us human medical folks.

 

I love animals too, but not enough to be in loads of debt with poor means to achieve a ROI.

 

Oh and in regards to the OPs' question is it worth it financially, I would say no, based on your age and current wage. 

 

Higher education is a racket here in the US and it really only makes sense if you can A) get cheap in-state tuition, B) get scholarships, or C) do it young and have a chance to see a healthy ROI in your working lifetime. 

[TWR]

I disagree with Maverick about veterinary medicine.  It is as gratifying if not more so than dealing with humans who bring the laundry list of what "other doctors" give them for XY orZ.  Never saw a Vet get sued for millions of dollars.  Also, if you are an entrepreneur, you can make a lot more than a PA.  Remember, you are the "doc", the "surgeon" the "pharmacist" and if you want the grooming and boarding place Do you know what it costs to get a dog groomed?  Or boarded while you are on vacation?  Being loved by your patient?  A tail wag or wet tongue is better than a frown and I've been waiting 2 hours.  Sorry for the rant and I too are surprised how many would have been vets.

[Acebecker]

I love being a PA.  I would do it over again if I had the choice to make in the same situation - 27, 1 kid and one on the way, no other commitments.  I would have done things differently - spent less, maybe gone to a less expensive school. 

 

Now, if I'd had my act together during undergrad I would likely have ended up in med school.  I'm 33 now, almost exactly 5 years out of school and I love my work.  A lot of patient's ask me, "So, are you planning to continue on to being a doctor?"  I say, "I love what I do...  I've thought about it, though." 

 

My clinic is great.  My specialties are great.  The salary is just fine.  The debt sucks, but I am covering my debt, a home mortgage, and school costs for kids - none of which I would have been able to do without this job.  Plus, and this is the kicker, I help people.  I take care of people when they are sick, hurt, scared, and even just annoying.  It's a privilege, one not afforded to very many people. 

[True Anomaly]

I disagree with Maverick about veterinary medicine.  It is as gratifying if not more so than dealing with humans who bring the laundry list of what "other doctors" give them for XY orZ.  Never saw a Vet get sued for millions of dollars.  Also, if you are an entrepreneur, you can make a lot more than a PA.  Remember, you are the "doc", the "surgeon" the "pharmacist" and if you want the grooming and boarding place Do you know what it costs to get a dog groomed?  Or boarded while you are on vacation?  Being loved by your patient?  A tail wag or wet tongue is better than a frown and I've been waiting 2 hours.  Sorry for the rant and I too are surprised how many would have been vets.

 

I was the opposite- as a kid, I wanted to be a veterinarian.  My mom is a vet (retired, but still volunteers her time), and owned her clinic starting way back in the 60's.  I was going to go to vet school and take over her practice with 100% ownership.  Growing up, though, I saw how much time she had to devote to the place as the owner- it was such a timesuck that took away from her being at home.  I understood mentally why this was the case, but I still hated seeing it.  She NEVER took vacation, and never had time for outside interests.  I also knew that to make decent money as a vet, you needed to own the practice- and from watching her for years, I just didn't want that same lifestyle.  And this was BEFORE the rise of corporate vet clinics and specialization- my mother literally did it all in her clinic- medicine, surgery, radiology, pharmacy, grooming, boarding, inpatient care- in order to do that these days requires so much extensive training that your return on investment is much less than it used to be.  

 

I knew, though, that I wanted to go into the medical field- and PA was very appealing.  And I found out that I like working with people.  Yes, I would've loved seeing all those happy wagging tails, but as a PA the majority of my patients don't bitch me out or complain about their wait.  Vet medicine, like all fields, has its problem people- and I'd venture that the number of annoying owners/clients is the same percentage-wise as annoying patients I see as a PA.  

 

Several years later, I don't regret my decision

[Maverick87]

I went to PA school in my late 50s and don't regret it in the least; it has been the adventure of a lifetime. It has given me the opportunities to both practice and now teach. I'm 70 now and there is no way I would have worked this long -- and still be enjoying it -- in one of my old careers. Going to medical school in middle age -- even if it were possible -- would have cut me off from seeing my family grow. Can't miss that; that's why I'm here!

 

If I was young -- in college now -- I really don't know. The profession -- and perhaps medicine in general -- is an unsettled place at present that will probably look considerably different at the end of a newly-started 20 year career. I am one PA working for one doc and I really like that model, but much of medicine is corporate now and jobs like mine are less common these days. Also, while the PA profession is making good strides in directing its growth, it is not unified anywhere near the degree that other advanced practice providers are. 

 

In this forum and in other places, you see younger people debating going to PA school or medical school. There are advantages to both paths and it's a personal decision. Consider it long and hard before you make your own decision.

 

In regards to your comments about changing careers:

 

I knew a man that recently passed away who started out as a teacher in his 20s, went to med school in his 30s, and left medicine to go into real estate in his 50s. He was massively successful at every venture he started. He also had like 6 kids.

 

This is an ideal life, as far as I'm concerned.

 

I don't think the PA profession is the end of the line for me personally.

 

If I could do it over again, I would absolutely go to PA school.  Every job has its pros and cons, but as a physician assistant, you are ready to start your professional career at a young age, learn a lot of truly valuable information, have a ton of versatility in your profession, make a good salary, and have the ability to do truly meaningful work.  Sometimes I noticed people are frustrated by not getting as much respect as physicians, but I don't think it is worth our time to dwell on that because physician assistants get a tremendous amount of respect.  Hate your job for another reason? Go to the next one, switch fields!  PA school can be a killer, but any experience is what you make of it.

 

Agreed. I had the choice of going to med school or PA school. I went PA and have no regrets (and, if I did, I would go back to med school).

 

While I dont feel medicine is my calling, I dont regret PA school and I feel I made the right choice. I get to see a lot of variety, get paid well, have a fair amount of professional respect and sometimes get to help people in a meaningful way. 

 

About every 3-4 months I go through a phase where I'm just fed up with patient care and the rat race of a 40 hour workweek. Honestly though, there is nothing else I could do right now that would afford me this lifestyle and professional standing. I feel really fortunate to be at a place where the grass is about as green as it gets for a PA, and it makes sense to ride it out until I'm ready to retire or change careers. I agree with UGoLong that careers have a lifespan. There is no shame in moving on when it has run it's course.

 

Looking back, the only thing I would change is I would go to an in-state college so I'd have less debt. Also I would start playing the drums much sooner than my 30's, and minor in music instead of chemistry! 

 

Completely agree. I feel the same as you: medicine isn't my calling, but I do enjoy it and it feels good to help people. I also really like a lot of people that I've met in health care and in the military (which I wouldn't have done if I didn't become a PA).

 

I lucked out though with many things. I've actually never been in debt on anything. I went to a state school and my grandparents helped me out. They came up with a very good idea for a 401k type setup. Basically, for every dollar I contributed to college, they would also contribute a dollar. It was pretty genius. It taught me responsibility without forcing a ton of pressure on me.

 

Then, I received the HPSP for PA school. I was also fortunate to get into a school about a half hour from my parent's house. So I stayed home, had my school paid for, and pocketed a good portion of the monthly stipend from my scholarship.

 

I was very fortunate, but I was also not afraid to take risks, which definitely helped.

 

Just little background about me. Been a dental hygienist for almost 29 years. Love it, working more than ever, my hand not too happy right now. Took me two years to get these positions within the last 3 months; dream job-probably not. Decided to pursue PA since I was unable to find a quality job in that time, so went back to school to complete preq. I've been offered an interview, which I'm very excited about but there's that little shadow of doubt that I should take a seat if offered a spot. I know jumping the gun but looking at all the pros and cons. I would be 50 when I graduate, not a big thing don't feel that "old" , but the big thing no income for 28 months and a loan would be waiting for me plus my daughter is entering her 2nd year of college. Oh and my husband and I would be apart for the duration except for any breaks. I love medicine, love treating pts, love volunteering at the ED and shadowing the PAS. I love the flexibility of the PA, I'm use to working under a doctor and not having the ability to practice without "supervision". Wages? I make between 40-48 per hour now, is it worth it financially?

 

In your situation, I would not go back to school. I don't think it's worth it financially. But I am not you. So I can't make that decision for you.

 

I disagree with Maverick about veterinary medicine.  It is as gratifying if not more so than dealing with humans who bring the laundry list of what "other doctors" give them for XY orZ.  Never saw a Vet get sued for millions of dollars.  Also, if you are an entrepreneur, you can make a lot more than a PA.  Remember, you are the "doc", the "surgeon" the "pharmacist" and if you want the grooming and boarding place Do you know what it costs to get a dog groomed?  Or boarded while you are on vacation?  Being loved by your patient?  A tail wag or wet tongue is better than a frown and I've been waiting 2 hours.  Sorry for the rant and I too are surprised how many would have been vets.

 

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forums/veterinary.164/

 

Check that out and get back to me.

 

Also, I am an entrepreneur and have been starting businesses since I was in high school. I think, in this situation, you could just cut out the middle man. You don't need to be a licensed vet to start what you've described. You could start one right now and employ all of those people if you really want.

 

You could probably employ a vet for cheap too since they have low pay and crushing debt.

[TWR]

Maverick,  I went to the page you put up about Veterinarians and I had to LOL!!!!!  the rantings, complaints, debts were the same as us on this site.  I too am an entrepreneur and have started 6 businesses in a wide variety including gourmet bakery, limousine company, hotel partnership, commercial real estate landlord, boarding and grooming kennel as well as breeder of West Highland terriers and finally a PA and owned my own practice in a medical center I owned in NYC. So yes, like you I am busy. I will be backing away from clinical medicine and STARTING up a new company not dealing with medicine.  Love the challenge.

[kittryn]

Just little background about me. Been a dental hygienist for almost 29 years. Love it, working more than ever, my hand not too happy right now. Took me two years to get these positions within the last 3 months; dream job-probably not. Decided to pursue PA since I was unable to find a quality job in that time, so went back to school to complete preq. I've been offered an interview, which I'm very excited about but there's that little shadow of doubt that I should take a seat if offered a spot. I know jumping the gun but looking at all the pros and cons. I would be 50 when I graduate, not a big thing don't feel that "old" , but the big thing no income for 28 months and a loan would be waiting for me plus my daughter is entering her 2nd year of college. Oh and my husband and I would be apart for the duration except for any breaks. I love medicine, love treating pts, love volunteering at the ED and shadowing the PAS. I love the flexibility of the PA, I'm use to working under a doctor and not having the ability to practice without "supervision". Wages? I make between 40-48 per hour now, is it worth it financially?

 

financially, no it won't be worth it for you. you'll be lucky to make $10 more per hour than what you're making now. factor into that your debt and 2.5 years of lost wages? you won't like it.  and as a PA, you really don't have that much control over your hours, even with the kind of independence you can achieve in this profession...you're ALWAYS expected to stay late without compensation and it's exhausting. 

 

I graduated PA school at age 46 (my daughter was 4 when I started; yes, I was and always have been a late starter) and have been a PA for 10 years. I've been grateful for it as a way to contribute to the family income, but my career has not been stable bc it is just not for me. I am not an over-achiever who wants to prove how much abuse I can take on a daily basis...I just want to do my job and then be left alone to live my life. I have not found that to be the case as a PA. I am an intellectual, an artist and a type B personaity - I just want to be left alone to do work that is up to my own high standards. medicine does not allow for that anymore. it's massively stressful and they always want you to see more patients in less time. and breaks? food? fuggedaboudit. I mean, I've learned to run through an 8-10 or even 12 hour day on an apple, but then I would like to have a day off after to recuperate. I work 24 hours a week now, and I could never do this kind of work for 40 hours a week. or even 32.

 

the only thing I like about being a PA is the patients, and no instutution or hospital wants you to spend more than 15 minutes with one. it's sooooo frustrating! so for me, life's too short to be this miserable!

 

I am now 58 and looking for a way to get out and still pay the bills I have which my PA income allowed me to have (a mortgage, raising a child, etc). once I find my way out, I'll be so gone. I can't wait.

 

and ps - it's funny, I wanted to be a vet in undergrad and couldn't get in (it is harder to get into than med school). lots of animal lovers here, I like that :-)

[SedRate]

would you still go to PA school?

 

Why or why not?

 

Pros and cons of the profession?

 

Thanks for your insight.

Yes, I would still go. Growing up, it was always MD/DO vs DVM for me. I didn't like seeing the sick animals that I couldn't heal and the job outlook didn't seem as promising as the PA field. Med school is too much of a commitment for me. I didn't like the idea of devoting that much time and money to school and then working like a dog through residency. Say goodbye to an entire decade of my youth and get stuck in one field? No thanks. The PA career allows for so much variety and change, which can also be a bad thing. But it also sucks to constantly get, "Are you the nurse? When's the doctor coming in? When do you finish your training to become a doctor? Oh, you're the one that hands them the tools?" But I use it as an educational opportunity for both me and my patients, and as I become more experienced, I find that I get those questions less. School is expensive, but I lived close to school with my SO who supported us. And I got a scholarship that paid for my last 3 months. I met a PA early on who was very knowledgeable and was able to have several outside interests to being a PA. I thought to myself, "I need to find a career like that." I did a little research and liked what I saw. From then on, I pursued the PA field almost exclusively. In college, I did explore other options like research and field work, but none seemed to compare, especially financially. I'm only a few years out, so I'm sure I'll have a change of tune years down the road when I'm still paying off loans and as medicine continues to change. Stay tuned.

 

For you, financially, it doesn't make sense. But if you can't physically continue your work as a hygienist because of your hand, that may be something to consider. Plus, if you're thinking about working in a higher paying field, you should be able to do just fine while supporting your family. I'd say give it LOTS of thought and try to shadow more and talk to more PAs. As I'm sure you're experiencing, PA school is a great commitment and should not be taken lightly. Good luck!

[Guest ERCat]

I considered med school and didn't end up going. I was terrified of going through eight years of hell, being stretched to my limit every day, and having mounds of debt afterward. And all of the competition! It seemed like a rat race to me. The first hump of the MCAT and applying to all the med schools and all the hell that entails. Studying for eight hours a day after class. Praying to get matched into a decent residency and possibly NOT matching and then waiting another year to start. Then going into residency and working 80 hours a week. I know the story because I've talked to many young doctors (and am close friends with a med student). For ME, a sensitive soul - I didn't want to spend my 20s and early 30s going through incredible amounts of stress and pressure and I was afraid of what it would do to my relationships. I didn't want to be coming out of residency at the age of about 32 years old, with 200,000 dollars in debt accumulating 8 percent interest and already burned out. That said, doctors in my field make probably 3-4 times what I make and probably less hours so that's obviously something to consider.

 

I knew that with PA I could be in and out in a short amount of time with MUCH less debt, with much less stress, and still doing what I loved - working with patients. My total investment in PA school was 30K (that's for tuition, not including living expenses) as I went to a public program. I spent 30K to be making 120K straight out of school at 25. I found my PA education to be intellectually stimulating and enjoyable, not a grueling rat race (although it sure felt like that at times, generally it wasn't too painful as there was always an endpoint in sight). Now I can work a decent schedule with decent pay and switch specialities if I want to do something new. And this is something in the back of my mind - the medical field seems to be changing for the worst. If one day it becomes too much and I want to pursue other passions - like writing, or starting a business, or becoming a photographer or a musician - I can do all of that because my investment has only involved two years and 30,000 dollars. NOT that I don't love being a PA or take the profession seriously - I love my job and I think it's the most fun and rewarding thing I could possibly do - but in the back of my mind it's nice to know I am not "stuck."

[Statko]

I wish I would have become a nurse in my early 20's so I could have easily become a NP. Not because I think NPs are so great, but because I feel like PAs are getting left in the dust by them and their lobby. It would be nice to not have to worry about someday having to get a "terminal degree", deal with the silly ever-changing certification requirements by NCCPA, and justify my worth to employers over an NP's ability to practice independently, etc. I thought I was picking the better of the two professions, now I'm not so sure.

[Maverick87]

I considered med school and didn't end up going. I was terrified of going through eight years of hell, being stretched to my limit every day, and having mounds of debt afterward. And all of the competition! It seemed like a rat race to me. The first hump of the MCAT and applying to all the med schools and all the hell that entails. Studying for eight hours a day after class. Praying to get matched into a decent residency and possibly NOT matching and then waiting another year to start. Then going into residency and working 80 hours a week. I know the story because I've talked to many young doctors (and am close friends with a med student). For ME, a sensitive soul - I didn't want to spend my 20s and early 30s going through incredible amounts of stress and pressure and I was afraid of what it would do to my relationships. I didn't want to be coming out of residency at the age of about 32 years old, with 200,000 dollars in debt accumulating 8 percent interest and already burned out. That said, doctors in my field make probably 3-4 times what I make and probably less hours so that's obviously something to consider.

 

I knew that with PA I could be in and out in a short amount of time with MUCH less debt, with much less stress, and still doing what I loved - working with patients. My total investment in PA school was 30K (that's for tuition, not including living expenses) as I went to a public program. I spent 30K to be making 120K straight out of school at 25. I found my PA education to be intellectually stimulating and enjoyable, not a grueling rat race (although it sure felt like that at times, generally it wasn't too painful as there was always an endpoint in sight). Now I can work a decent schedule with decent pay and switch specialities if I want to do something new. And this is something in the back of my mind - the medical field seems to be changing for the worst. If one day it becomes too much and I want to pursue other passions - like writing, or starting a business, or becoming a photographer or a musician - I can do all of that because my investment has only involved two years and 30,000 dollars. NOT that I don't love being a PA or take the profession seriously - I love my job and I think it's the most fun and rewarding thing I could possibly do - but in the back of my mind it's nice to know I am not "stuck."

 

Agreed.

 

My main concern with practicing medicine is a frivolous lawsuit ruining my career.

 

Because of my choice to become a PA, I'm now a military veteran with no debt of any kind and 6 figures in savings in my late 20s. I spent a measly 2 years obtaining this degree and, if I do ever get sued, I'll be in a better position to change careers (since I won't be practicing after that, regardless of the outcome) than a physician who has far more time and financial commitment.

 

I could not imagine a better career choice for me personally (and, for the record, I do not regret not going the NP direction).

[RDH⏩PA]

Thanks for all your insight. I've been poundering the topic since receiving an invite and I am moving full force with the interview with the hopes of receiving an acceptance letter. I am looking at my professional future, the debt doesn't scare me honestly, my plan is to pay off any loans within the first + year following graduation. I can have the best of both worlds, working as a PA and maybe 1 day a week as a hygienist.