I have ZERO Patient-care hours... I feel like I have almost no shot after joining this forum

[pdbhakta]

I have ZERO patient contact hours... And after joining this forum and seeing most of the candidates, I’m having growing doubts about being competitive enough... My whole background is genetics; I only recently (last year during my rotation) realized that I wanted to be in direct-patient contact for work, but sadly everything I have ever done is in the laboratory, and it’s way too late for me to do any patient contact work since those beginner jobs can’t do anything for me beside “look good”

 

I have been shadowing and was hoping my 200+ hours of PA shadowing would be a good alternative to my missing PCE (I plan on getting over 400-500 hours of shadowing). It really does suck to be in a position where I don’t have any credentials to get me into a patient contact job.

 

I will take all critiques and advice! 

 

Undergrad Ed School: West Texas A&M University, BS in Biology

                                       MD Anderson Cancer Center (MDACC), BS in Cytogenetic Technology

 

Cumulative Undergrad. GPA: 3.41
Science Undergrad. GPA: 3.41
Post Bachelor GPA: 4.00 (Last 60+ hours)
Age at application time : 23
1st GRE: 307 cumulative (150V, 157Q, 4.0A)

 

Direct Patient Care (type & hours):
None :( - Trust me, I tried to find a place to help volunteer or work, but I was pretty much put on hold and never called on everywhere I went - No excuses though, I hope my shadow experiences make up at least a little bit for this disappointment

 

Non-Direct Health Care (type & hours):

Cytogenetic Technology Oncology/Hematology Clinical Rotations at Vanderbilt University - ~600 hours

 

Shadowing Experience (type & hours):

Hematology (MD) - 25 hours

Pediatrics ICU (MD) - 13 hours

Interventional Radiology (PA-C) - 125 hours (and still shadowing)

 

Certifications and Licenses:

Licensed Cytogenetic Technologist by the American Society of Clinical Pathologist

BLS Certified

 

Research Activities:
Pancreatic Cancer at MDACC (3 months) - Published abstract in Association of Genetic Technologist over a systematic review on the correlation between CNV and staging for PC

Schools Applied: Oklahoma City University, Texas Tech University, UT-Southwestern, UT-Pan American, UT-Medical Branch, University of North Texas, and OU-Tulsa

 

Letter of Recommendation:

1 from a PA-C that I am shadowing - Interventional Radiology in Amarillo, TX

1 from an MD - Education Coordinator of my CGT program at MDACC

1 from an MD, PhD - Program Director of my CGT program at MDACC

 

Application Submitted Date: CASPA submitted May 31, 2016
 

I will keep updating this post as I find out about my interviews, acceptances, and denials 

[rev ronin]

Have a plan to get in next year, regardless of how good you think your chances will or will not be this year. So, start HCE now.  If you do get interviews, it will help.

 

Yes, ZERO patient care hours is a negative, and a pretty big one.  PAs have minimal to no lab role--we're seeing patients all day, every day, and if you've never done that before, you may find out that you detest it.  Thus, HCE is also for YOU, to make sure the role is as good a fit for you, as you are a good fit for the role.

[Petunia]

Why don't you become a CNA?  The programs are really short...and in many states you don't need to do the program.  I just showed up on test day and passed.  Even if you apply, you should still work on getting some PCE in case you don't get in this cycle.  Good luck!

[MT2PA]

Some schools accept medical technologist as HCE so cytotech *may* pass for them, but it's a stretch. (And I have no idea if the schools you applied to are those that accept MT)

 

You already know your weakness.  Redirect your shadowing efforts (200 hrs is more than enough) because shadowing will absolutely not replace HCE even a little bit.  It's one thing to watch someone work with patients and quite another to actual get your hands dirty.  If you had perfect grades I would say there is maybe a sliver of a chance your shadowing would save you.

 

I'm sorry to say I would bet money that you will be applying again next year.  No HCE may get your app auto rejected at programs and they won't even look at other aspects.  You're right, no excuses.  Do what you need to do to find a paid HCE/direct patient care job ASAP and start accruing hours.  Work full time/1.5 jobs to really get the hours up there before the next app cycle.

[lindz12]

I feel that you have a lot to show for yourself, like everyone else here said, if not this time, then next year! And as for CNA, I also was certified by studying on my own (via YouTube videos on correct protocols and looking up requirements on the website) and was able to work at a clinic right away. Yes, it does help to know someone but sometimes when you want it enough, nothing can stop you! Just keep swimming ;)

 

 

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[fishbum]

Also....RELAX! You're young...even if it takes a couple of years (it won't) to build up enough experience to make you competitive, it won't the end of the world. You'd still be way, way ahead of a lot of us in the career progression.

 

Have you thought about doing an EMT class? In most places, they're short and easily accessed. And if you can't find a paying job, you're practically assured some volunteer opportunities with volunteer fire/rescue/EMS agencies.

[UGoLong]

You know what you need to do; get HCE. Without it, you may find that you are climbing a ladder that's leaning against the wrong wall. So, it's not just to build credentials for applying, but also to be sure that direct patient care is for you.

 

Good luck.

[lanime]

I'm not sure why you think it's way too late for you to do a "beginner job" or that it will only serve to look good... You're 23! You have plenty of time for growth and learning and every experience will offer you some benefit. Patience, hard work & determination will get you to your end goal, but try and enjoy the ride along the way! Good luck & I'm sure you will be a great candidate with a little extra effort.

[xNeferpitou]

I'm not trying to discourage you or anything, but I do not think you will have a chance at OU-Tulsa.  They are very specific with what type of student they want it and that is why people receive so many rejections. They are mostly looking for students who want to stay and work in northeast rural Oklahoma and have a background in community service to the underserved. 

Also, Oklahoma City University is a brand new school. The director of OU-OKC was getting fed up with the program since there wasn't much change, so he left and made the new program at Oklahoma City University. As long you have amazing LORS and a personal statement, then I think you have a good chance with Oklahoma City University since it is considered competitive to have a 3.2 and above, and they don't require any PCE. It's really expensive though..

I honestly don't think you will even be granted an interview for OU-Tulsa, but on the other hand I feel like you have an amazing chance of getting an interview at Oklahoma City University. When you interview, make sure you know the problems facings PAs in Oklahoma. 

Here is one problem that you should know to help you out. Oklahomas Medicaid agency is recommending that nurse practitioners, physician assistants and other midlevel providers receive less money for the services they provide to SoonerCare patiens. Under the authority's current budget proposal, the agency would cut the amount it pays nurse practitioners and physician assistants, paying them 85 pecent of what the agency pays physicians - medical doctors and osteopathic physicians. This negatively impacts small clinical practices. Here read this link and try to do research on the problem. 

http://www.fox23.com/news/soonercare-cuts-could-affect-nearly-a-million-oklahomans/185763839

 

The affordable health care is another important topic you should read about prior to your interview. ALSO IMPORTANT, read about Daniel McNeil because he is an important person to know. You should ask him why he left OU-OKC to start the OCU program. I can't type anymore because I am running out of time but please research more. If you have anymore questions please let me know. 

 

 

 

I am curious as to why you didn't submit your application to OU-OKC as well? anyways, good luck with your application and keep us updated :) 

[Lauren R]

No harm in trying to apply but definitely start trying to get direct patient contact hours for next year just incase. I do know someone who got into PA school without any clinical hours, but that's not common. Maybe try a nursing assistant course and then applying work as a CNA.

[jlumsden]

Working as a caregiver for people with developmental disabilities counts for many programs -- it's how I got into mine.  Most residential agencies are desperate for employees.  In some states, you train as a nursing assistant registered.  You take clients to medical appointments, follow complex medical instructions, assist with medications, and gain a great sense of the social issues surrounding medical care.  You may also engage in behavioral tracking to assist psychiatrists with their prescribing.  It's a low paying job, but the responsibilities go far beyond what they earn.

[guiriguiri]

Also, if you're just doing it for resume reasons, you should quit shadowing. Having more than handful of shadowing shifts doesn't typically add much resume-wise and that is time that could be better spent scribing (no cert needed and more and more schools are counting it) or dedicating yourself to getting whatever certificate you need to begin getting PCE. 

[pdbhakta]

Thank you for the advice! I have applied to many jobs, but I haven’t been offered any interviews - at this point I’m not picky about what I do for work, so every job is a good fit. Also, I have done everything from managing a business to cleaning rooms as a housekeeper. I have an appreciation for every position, no matter how highly or lowly respected that job may be. 

 

I hope my educational experience helps, along with the LORs I have gotten from the professors at MD Anderson as well as the LOR from the PA I shadowed in IR. My essay may or may not be good enough, but that’s for the admission committee to decide.

 

Anyways, thank you for your help!

[xNeferpitou]

Thank you for the advice! I have applied to many jobs, but I haven’t offered any interviews - at this point I’m not picky about what I do for work, so every job is a good fit. Also, I have done everything from managing a business to cleaning rooms as a housekeeper. I have an appreciation for every position, no matter how highly or lowly respected that job may be. 

 

I hope my educational experience helps, along with the LORs I have gotten from the professors at MD Anderson as well as the LOR from the PA I shadowed in IR. My essay may or may not be good enough, but that’s for the admission committee to decide.

 

Anyways, thank you for your help!

Don't listen to the person who said quit shadowing. If you are unable to receive any HCE at the moment because you can't find a job then shadow. It is better to shadow a lot of different specialities, then just the same PAs. Especially with some of the schools that you are applying too. The schools in Oklahoma love seeing a nice ammount of shadowing hours, that is what the admissions lady told me at OU-OKC. Jami from admissions told me this

 "Why we require shadowing is so you can know what a PA really is and does.  This is likely the first question you will be asked in an interview.  I wouldn’t say we prefer one over the other, to be a competitive applicant you will need both health care and shadowing.  Hope this helps."

So basically, if you have a lot of shadowing hours, lets say 150+, then you will be competitive enough for an interview, with your grades and hopefully your amazing personal statement and LORS. However, if you are really concerned about gaining HCE, then contact nursing homes. They are always needing CNAs, and they might even pay you to attend class as long as you agree to work with them afterwards.

The OU-OKC program wants to make sure you understand the profession 110% from all aspects, whether it is primary care, surgery, pediatrics, psychiatry, etc. You also need to tell them why you want to be a PA rather than MD or NP. Make sure you know the differences for each profession! KNOW WHY YOU WANT TO BE A PA. If you can nail each of these questions, then you have a really good chance of acceptance. Also, be prepared to tell them why they should accept you over other applicants, and make sure you research there program inside and out. Why do you want to go to that school rather than any other school? What do you like about there program? Memorize there mission statement, because they might ask you what it is and what it means to you. I am really trying to help you out the best I can. I know I am giving you abunch of interview advice, but I am certain you will be offered one.

Try not to get discouraged from what you read on here. Stay confident, know the program you want to get into inside and out, know why you want to be a PA rather than MD/NP, and I am sure you can get in this cycle. Once again, if you have any questions, feel free to ask and I will try my best to answer you. All of this advice I am giving you is from PA students, admissions, PAs that have graduated from OU-OKC, and from all the research I did myself. Try the best you can to get in this cycle, and if you don't, then you can worry about your next steps

[pdbhakta]

So here is my updated and verified (CASPA) information:

 

Undergrad Ed School: West Texas A&M University, BS in Biology

                                       MD Anderson Cancer Center (MDACC), BS in Cytogenetic Technology

 

Overall GPA: 3.35
BCP GPA: 3.41
Post-Bach GPA: 4.00 (Last 59 hours)
Age at application time : 23
1st GRE: 307 cumulative (150V, 157Q, 4.0A)

 

Direct Patient Care (type & hours):
I have applied as a Patient Care Technician at a local hospital - Hope to hear back from them within a week

 

Non-Direct Health Care (type & hours):

Cytogenetic Technology Oncology/Hematology Clinical Rotations at Vanderbilt University ~ 600 hours

 

Shadowing Experience (type & hours):

Hematology (MD) - 27 hours

Pediatrics ICU (MD) - 13 hours

Interventional Radiology (PA-C) - 125 hours (and still shadowing)

 

Certifications and Licenses:

Licensed Cytogenetic Technologist by the American Society of Clinical Pathologist

BLS Certified

 

Research Activities:
Pancreatic Cancer at MDACC (3 months) - Published abstract in Association of Genetic Technologist over a systematic review on the correlation between CNV and staging for PC

Schools Applied: Oklahoma City University, Texas Tech University, UT-Southwestern, UT-Pan American (UT-RGV), UT-Medical Branch, University of North Texas, and OU-Tulsa

 

Letter of Recommendation:

1 from a PA-C that I am shadowing - Interventional Radiology in Amarillo, TX

1 from an MD - Education Coordinator of the CGT program at MDACC

1 from an MD, PhD - Program Director of the CGT program at MDACC

 

Application Submitted Date: CASPA verified June 7, 2016
 

I will keep updating this post as I find out about my interviews, acceptances, and denials 

[tuxedosheep]

I too am from Amarillo, and work at Northwest Texas Hospital. I think getting your CNA certification is an easy way to get some killer experience. We are always needing CNAs/PCS at the hospital, and I'm sure BSA is the same way. I think they'll start you around $13-15$ if you do the Amarillo College certification. I've learned so, so much at Northwest, and you get to see a LOT of underserved, diverse people. I got into my job as a diet tech by first working as a medical assistant. That's also an avenue to consider. There are opportunities here, I promise!

 

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[pdbhakta]

An update for you guys!

 

I got a job as a Patient Care Tech at BSA, surprisingly they were completely understanding of my situation and I believe I'll be starting working pretty soon!

 

 

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[UGoLong]

There you go! Now you're on the march.

 

Best wishes.

[surfca40]

I'm not sure why you think it's way too late for you to do a "beginner job" or that it will only serve to look good... You're 23! You have plenty of time for growth and learning and every experience will offer you some benefit. Patience, hard work & determination will get you to your end goal, but try and enjoy the ride along the way! Good luck & I'm sure you will be a great candidate with a little extra effort.

This...you're still very young...yes you're right they are starter jobs, but if you want to get into the PA profession, you have to start at the bottom.   I had been in an established career for about 6 years making over $115,000 annually.  I left and became an EMT making about $34,000 a year.  Does it suck?  Absolutely.  But my dream is to be a PA and if that's what it takes, that's what I"m going to do.

[DiggySRNA]

I know the feeling all too well. When I decided to leave my pre-school teaching assistant job I became unemployed for 8 months ( I was prepared to be broke). Between those months, I probably sent out 100s+ of applications with no callbacks, interviews, or emails. Then I decided to earn my EMT-B license/certification. Even after being licensed, no one would even look at my resume. But I kept submitting at least 5-10 applications per night until someone gave me the chance for just ONE interview. 

 

Now I'm working at an excellent job and have accumulated around 1700 hours.

 

 

Don't give up, if you want it badly, you won't settle for just shadowing hours, but actual direct PCE.

 

PS. Don't apply for the higher tier entry level jobs like (ER Tech or MA), try for nursing assistant/PCT, get the experience, then aim for the big guys (ER Tech or MA).

[futurepa18]

I'm probably an exception, but I hardly had any patient care hours when I applied (maybe 50-100 hours as an EMT-B). I wasn't even planning on applying this past year because I didn't think I had enough experience to be accepted, but a friend talked me into just going for it. I thought that it couldn't hurt and could give me more experience in interviews and knowing what to expect for next year when I applied.  I ended up applying to 7 schools, got 4 interviews.  I was waitlisted at 2 and accepted at 2.  So I would say it's the whole package.  If you have plenty of shadowing experience, maybe some volunteer hours and stuff, I'd say go ahead and apply.  It saved me a whole year of waiting to get in.  Not to say that patient care experience isn't a huge deal, it is.  But if you have enough on your application to get an interview, I'd say it's more about a broad range of experiences and how well you kill it in the interview.

[lanime]

^ and where you apply.

[pdbhakta]

So I wanted to let everyone know that I was accepted at the Texas Tech PA program! Thank you all for your responses of encouragement and opposition

 

 

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[codyL]

Given your lab background, I would say pound out some phlebotomy hours. Phlebotomy positions are extremely high turnover and easy to find, at least around here. I think because people realize they have to actually work :)

[jsaldarr]

So I wanted to let everyone know that I was accepted at the Texas Tech PA program! Thank you all for your responses of encouragement and opposition

 

 

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Congrats!