Fired.....and Now Lost

[BruceBanner]

Not much to say that hasn't been said here, but that whole scenario was abusive. I think you dodged a bullet with this practice.

 

Much better to have a gap on your CV (no one is going to question a couple of months) than a job for <1 year that's not a locum. I wouldn't even put this one on your CV. It doesn't sound like you were credentialed at all and they were probably just billing your patients under the doc. Plus, it's obvious this guy is running a sweatshop here. He hired you on the spot (desperate to keep his revenue going), has his senior PAs seeing up to 40 ppd (unacceptable for FP), and was convicted of Medicare fraud.

 

You really gotta be careful with these small private practices. There is no labor regulation. I just came from one. While I was treated well and never saw high volumes, I was there to help keep his practice afloat. With no real long-term incentive for me.

 

Listen, you'll be fine. This was for the best!! Just hold out for a more legitimate job.

[lostconfidence]

Don't lose sleep over the risk of lawsuit.  The risk of lawsuit on any given patient is very small, but of course cumulative.  You were only there for a short time, and only saw relatively few patients.  Your risk of lawsuit is very, very minimal.  Likely greater risk you will be in catastrophic car accident today.  

 

And IF you are named in lawsuit, then your attorney will be able to point to the practice.  I wouldn't worry about it unless you have significant wealth (approaching millions).  And if you DO have that, then you need to do some wealth management to structure your wealth so that the lawyers can't ever get it. 

 

 

If there is no malpractice coverage then legal counsel would have to come out-of-pocket which for the OP may be cost prohibitive.  I agree, risk is low, but risk does still exist.  As has been pointed out many times previously, get your own coverage which follows you wherever you go, even if it is for the minimal amount, just so legal coverage is provided.

 

 

Thank you both for the advice!

 

I agree that the risk is very low. I will check tomorrow to see if the malpractice insurance was active. If not and something happens down the road, I guess I will have to pay lawyer fees out-of-pocket. Though, like you said, I only saw maybe 110 to 120 patients at most. Over the course of the previous 3 years, I saw about 4,000 patients per year and only 1 died. So that's pretty good odds. Also, at this practice, it was a lot of coughs and colds, med refills, things like that. And I wasn't even ordering meds under my name (only labs and imaging). I tended to over-work anything that was even remotely concerning and my notes were thorough as well.

 

If I am not covered, I will try to see if I could just pay now since I was approved and have an effective date. Worth a try. I will keep you all posted on this.

 

Not much to say that hasn't been said here, but that whole scenario was abusive. I think you dodged a bullet with this practice.

 

Much better to have a gap on your CV (no one is going to question a couple of months) than a job for <1 year that's not a locum. I wouldn't even put this one on your CV. It doesn't sound like you were credentialed at all and they were probably just billing your patients under the doc. Plus, it's obvious this guy is running a sweatshop here. He hired you on the spot (desperate to keep his revenue going), has his senior PAs seeing up to 40 ppd (unacceptable for FP), and was convicted of Medicare fraud.

 

You really gotta be careful with these small private practices. There is no labor regulation. I just came from one. While I was treated well and never saw high volumes, I was there to help keep his practice afloat. With no real long-term incentive for me.

 

Listen, you'll be fine. This was for the best!! Just hold out for a more legitimate job.

 

Thanks!

 

My first job had a few bumps, but, overall, went pretty smoothly. They had many good systems in place and were on the level. I didn't have to think twice about most of this stuff because it was all legitimately taken care of. I'm learning now that I was spoiled and that I need to protect myself way better going forward.

 

I am already applying for jobs and will take my time this time, now that I know how bad things could get.

[CAAdmission]

So, with the exception of my signature, the billing is in his name and the EMR is in his name (except with my name at the bottom, simply stating "Note complete by _____".

 

I wouldn't sweat it. If this is all true, there is no proof that you even existed (at least in any other capacity than a scribe). As said above, don't lose sleep over this. 

 

If you think the practice is defrauding medicaid/medicare, report them. I think you get to keep 10% of whatever they get fined (which can be millions in a big practice).

[UpRegulated]

I did get a paycheck, but I'm confused. How can this be found on a background check? Do medical facilities do FBI level background checks?

 

It would be very unfortunate to have to explain this to every employer for the rest of my career.

 

I, nor anyone else, can say how deep a future employer will go.  If you got a paycheck, then federal and social security tax withholdings from your previous employer were reported to the appropriate agencies.  If states taxes were withheld (or not), that was reported to your state government.  If you -- as many states require -- reported your new employment address to your state licensing board, there is a record there too.  If you happened to apply for credit, insurance, or anything else financial, and you reported your employment history (and mentioned the place you just left), there is a record of that too (including on your credit report potentially).  If any insurance was billed under your name (private or otherwise, not just CMS), there is a record there too. Being a billable provider, no matter how long, leaves a paper trail.

 

One option is to pretend that you never worked there to a future employer, and hope it doesn't get found out. But if you don't list it, and you get found out, that can become problematic quickly.  Yeah, you can leave it off your CV, then report it on the credentialing documents, but how are you going to explain that your most recent employer was not on your CV, but was on your credentialing documents?  

 

The other option is to just be upfront about it.  It sounds like you have a good reason that you left/were fired.  Based on what you have said, I don't think trying to hide it is wise. JMO.

[UGoLong]

Clearly not everyone would do the same thing. Such is life.

 

A 10 day job does not rate being on your CV: It just does not. What were your duties and accomplishments there, figuring out where the bathrooms were and learning the EMR? 

 

If, on a legal document, application, or credentialing form, you are asked to list every position you've  had since you became a PA, then clearly you would need to include this one, along with your reasons for leaving.

 

There is a legal limit as to what information a former employer can provide to callers; usually you don't get much other than the dates of employment.

 

Second down and 12; call your next play and don't get hung up on the past.

[lostconfidence]

I, nor anyone else, can say how deep a future employer will go.  If you got a paycheck, then federal and social security tax withholdings from your previous employer were reported to the appropriate agencies.  If states taxes were withheld (or not), that was reported to your state government.  If you -- as many states require -- reported your new employment address to your state licensing board, there is a record there too.  If you happened to apply for credit, insurance, or anything else financial, and you reported your employment history (and mentioned the place you just left), there is a record of that too (including on your credit report potentially).  If any insurance was billed under your name (private or otherwise, not just CMS), there is a record there too. Being a billable provider, no matter how long, leaves a paper trail.

 

One option is to pretend that you never worked there to a future employer, and hope it doesn't get found out. But if you don't list it, and you get found out, that can become problematic quickly.  Yeah, you can leave it off your CV, then report it on the credentialing documents, but how are you going to explain that your most recent employer was not on your CV, but was on your credentialing documents?  

 

The other option is to just be upfront about it.  It sounds like you have a good reason that you left/were fired.  Based on what you have said, I don't think trying to hide it is wise. JMO.

 

I do plan on listing it and informing future employers. My plan going forward is to keep it off my CV and mention it during the interview/application.

 

I think that putting a job like this on my CV won't get me many interviews, but that it can be explained away during the interview. Like you said (and the more that I've been discussing it in real life as well), this shouldn't hurt my chances with any decent employer.

 

Clearly not everyone would do the same thing. Such is life.

 

A 10 day job does not rate being on your CV: It just does not. What were your duties and accomplishments there, figuring out where the bathrooms were and learning the EMR? 

 

If, on a legal document, application, or credentialing form, you are asked to list every position you've  had since you became a PA, then clearly you would need to include this one, along with your reasons for leaving.

 

There is a legal limit as to what information a former employer can provide to callers; usually you don't get much other than the dates of employment.

 

Second down and 12; call your next play and don't get hung up on the past.

 

Thank you and, yes, I will definitely list this job on credentialing (along with another job that I had for just 3 days, but determined early on that it wasn't a good fit and quit). I don't want to lie.

 

Also, I loved the part about the bathrooms. That made me laugh.

[aquafresh11]

It seems to me that Provider One is for medicaid billing in the state of Washington. Is this something that you have to sign up for? I definitely never signed up to anything like this.

 

I was close, it is actually provider source, which is a centralized credentialing service. 

[lostconfidence]

I was close, it is actually provider source, which is a centralized credentialing service. 

 

What is a centralized credentialing service?

 

It sounds like your friend was credentialed through this same agency at his previous place of employment. I would assume that he had to create an account on that site for that? I definitely never did that. The only thing that I did at this position was submit a W4 and an application for malpractice insurance.

[aquafresh11]

What is a centralized credentialing service?

 

It sounds like your friend was credentialed through this same agency at his previous place of employment. I would assume that he had to create an account on that site for that? I definitely never did that. The only thing that I did at this position was submit a W4 and an application for malpractice insurance.

 

It is a service that insurance companies and hospitals use to keep track of all your information, education, jobs, etc. That way when you credential with them all that information is available and don't have to do new applications with each one. I never signed up for it either, I honestly have no idea how they get your information. My former co worker got fired in WA and Alaska, no shared networks or anything. I guess we should all be scared about being on the grid. Haha.

[rookiejay]

Please Please don't give up. I too was fired without being told why. I was devastated , I had no confidence. To make things worse I had a friend from PA school who told me that I was incompetent that I needed to work as an MA yadda yadda ( this person never took the PANCE- never became a PA) This fear made me feel I would only get fired at another job. I took unemployment and then tried to find anything that was not PA work. I lost my house , my car, my dog , my friends ashes. I lost everything. I went to live with my boyfriend and we were married. He gave me the confidence to return. Problem - We live in Dublin Ireland. So I have been back in America for 3 years, I have not seen my husband in that time, just trying to pay off my student loans, so I can go back to Ireland and live with Gavin again.

I kick myself every day on how I gave up, and gave in. Fast Fwd to when I returned to America. I find out the reason I was fired was because the DO at the clinic threw me under the buss was found to be shady and later fired. They offered me my job back ( I didn't take it , for god sake they fired me w/o telling me why and look how it effected my life).... what I found out by returning is I was always good enough at my job. Just not good enough at judging optional employers. I now use locums so if things get shady again I work with another group and they will just move me to another location.

Please don't give up. If you were working for years without problems this is a refection of the clinic you were at , not your PAC skills and value.

[ventana]

I had one job where they tried to breach contract by not honoring the 90 day clause we had both signed.  I held them to it - but still left as I was seriously uncomfortable in that ER

 

I was the second most senior PA

I was next to bottom for productivity!

 

People were documenting FULL HUGE H&P's on a twisted ankle, and never even touching the patient.  No way I could compete with that...  Then when an attending basiccally told me to stop bothering him with a guy 1 week out of 4 way CABG with crushing chest pain....... I knew my days were limited.  i did the professional thing and told them I was not happy and they tried to have me leave in like 30 days.  I held my ground and forced the issue with the contract.  Offered them to buy me out or give me the shifts in prompt care.  

 

I left and with in a year the group that had had the ER contract for 30+ years was fired, the director MD was placed on suspension for something like 5 years for missing an AMI (I looked in state records, he never looked at an EKG!) and the place basically imploded.

 

 

 

I felt like a failure that i failed at EM in spite of giving it everything I had, but I had ZERO mentoring and ZERO support in a toxic environment.  After learning all that had happened after I left I was glad I followed my inner voice and left, fighting for what is right.

 

 

So the moral is do what you believe is right, maintain your standards, hold others to the legal standards they have agreed to, and be proud even if it doesn't work...

[DarcyJ]

Sounds to me like this doc was running a Medicare mill and using the max number of PAs to see 40 patients a day - damn the torpedoes - see everything and everyone - don't complain - don't ask questions - just see 'em and bill 'em.

 

It was just a bad job choice. Do not let it reflect on your professional ethics, skills or integrity.

 

I took a really bad job once - kept telling the little spark at the back of brain to shut up - everything was fine. It wasn't.

 

Just make sure to not repeat the mistake. Do the research. Look up the docs. Ask for his/her references. Follow your gut.

 

Be true to yourself. Remember your smarts and move forward.

 

Karma is out there - this doc will get his due.

This. I haven't reached PA school yet, but practiced dental hygiene for 11 years. And, I had a very similar experience to yours. (Way more patients than acceptable, among many other issues.) Turns out it was a Medicaid mill and nothing was as promised. They literally let me go by just cutting my hours to nothing and stopped taking my phone calls to find out when I was back on the schedule. It was the most unprofessional experience of my life.

I had to go back to my previous employer with my tail between my legs and ask for my job back. (I mostly left for more flexible hours to allow me to go back to school, so I didn't leave with hard feelings.) The fact that my previous employer (who was a very particular person) took me back told me that it wasn't me that caused that whole ridiculous experience.

 

Best of luck finding a better job! Sounds like you might have gotten lucky that they didn't waste your time beyond ten days. I know I was glad I saw their true colors sooner than later!

 

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[DarcyJ]

Not much to say that hasn't been said here, but that whole scenario was abusive. I think you dodged a bullet with this practice.

 

Much better to have a gap on your CV (no one is going to question a couple of months) than a job for <1 year that's not a locum. I wouldn't even put this one on your CV. It doesn't sound like you were credentialed at all and they were probably just billing your patients under the doc. Plus, it's obvious this guy is running a sweatshop here. He hired you on the spot (desperate to keep his revenue going), has his senior PAs seeing up to 40 ppd (unacceptable for FP), and was convicted of Medicare fraud.

 

You really gotta be careful with these small private practices. There is no labor regulation. I just came from one. While I was treated well and never saw high volumes, I was there to help keep his practice afloat. With no real long-term incentive for me.

 

Listen, you'll be fine. This was for the best!! Just hold out for a more legitimate job.

And, this as well! One of the hardest thing about practicing hygiene is finding a job where you aren't mistreated. And, this stems from most practices being so small that they don't have to abide by labor laws.

 

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