Fired.....and Now Lost

[lostconfidence]

^^^  This.

 

I would understand the whole Medicare fraud thing explanation if you had worked there for years, but you were there only a few weeks.  My advice would be to delete the whole scenario from your CV like it never happened.   You don't want to have to explain this situation to anyone, especially a new employer.  They could sit back and wonder if you would be indicted later on with this doc and not want anything to do with you.  I live by the wisdom "Less is More".

 

Just strike it from your CV and move on.

 

Thanks for the advice!

 

Unfortunately, I'd previously applied for a federal position and only just heard back from them about a week ago. I have to drive far for the interview and told them that I could not make the drive flippantly since I began a new job (too much information, I know). So I will likely have to tell them about the Medicare fraud to give a reason why I am no longer working.

 

Other than that, yes, I will absolutely leave this job off of my resume!

[rpackelly]

You are not reporting the doc, just say to the federal position that you found out right after you took the job that he had been convicted of Medicare fraud and you decided to leave asap.  What the employer says after that would be totally non credible after only 10 days there.   Then I agree with leaving it off your CV entirely, or it can always be explained, your choice.  One more job down the road and it will be a non-issue.  

[lostconfidence]

You are not reporting the doc, just say to the federal position that you found out right after you took the job that he had been convicted of Medicare fraud and you decided to leave asap.  What the employer says after that would be totally non credible after only 10 days there.   Then I agree with leaving it off your CV entirely, or it can always be explained, your choice.  One more job down the road and it will be a non-issue.  

 

Thank you!

[lostconfidence]

Does anyone know if prior employment will show up on a background check? A friend of mine brought this up as a possible issue for privileges. Even though this place was shady, I was still terminated from a position of employment, no? I would have to check "yes" for that question.

[UGoLong]

You left after trying the job. You had no privileges anywhere during the 10 days, I would assume. It costs them money to apply, so I'm sure they would have withdrawn anything they might have submitted. I'd be surprised if you were even on the supervisory agreement.

 

Blow it off; it is a 10 day trip through hell. 

[UpRegulated]

You are not reporting the doc, just say to the federal position that you found out right after you took the job that he had been convicted of Medicare fraud and you decided to leave asap.  What the employer says after that would be totally non credible after only 10 days there.   Then I agree with leaving it off your CV entirely, or it can always be explained, your choice.  One more job down the road and it will be a non-issue.  

 

You can't leave anything off your CV.  DON'T do that. FBI background checks, etc. It WILL be found out.  I don't understand the advice to pretend like it never happened. If you got a paycheck, the fact that you were employed there is on record and will come up in a background check, which most (all?) employers will do.  If you leave it off, you will look like you are lying.  Put it on your CV, then own it and explain it.  You have ample explanation for why it didn't work out.  If the job was outside your scope and experience, then say so.  If it was a personality or philosophical disagreement, say so. If the doc was shady, say so. Own it.  Doing so is an opportunity for you to show that you are ethical and care about doing the right thing and doing so within your scope of practice and experience. Not doing that will dig the hole deeper.  Use it as an opportunity rather than a perceived "failure."  

[loliz]

Your CV is not a legal document. It is basically a personal marketing piece. If during the application process, you are asked to provide information on all past employers (which is likely for credentialing and application processing), then yes- of course you should list it and most likely it will not be an issue. If you are asked about it, provide a short, succinct explanation that is honest. I agree with the above-- "own it." However, I would not put a 10 day position with no credentialing or billing on a CV. 

[UpRegulated]

 However, I would not put a 10 day position with no credentialing or billing on a CV. 

 

If the OP got a paycheck, then it will come up in a background check (state/federal taxes withheld, etc.).

[lostconfidence]

If the OP got a paycheck, then it will come up in a background check (state/federal taxes withheld, etc.).

 

I did get a paycheck, but I'm confused. How can this be found on a background check? Do medical facilities do FBI level background checks?

 

It would be very unfortunate to have to explain this to every employer for the rest of my career.

[loliz]

If the OP got a paycheck, then it will come up in a background check (state/federal taxes withheld, etc.).

 

I'm not saying to hide the employment, and it should be listed in credentialing paperwork along with anywhere you have ever used your medical license. I am saying that it does not need to be on the CV. A CV is not a legal document.  It is a document that allows you to put your best foot forward. The reason that employers can request that resumes be less than one or maybe two pages is that they expect it to be edited to show your strengths, experience and abilities. 

I have never heard of background checks showing your tax records. It is none of my employers business how much money my family makes or what taxes I pay.  And FBI background checks? Seriously? Does this happen?

[Maverick87]

You can't leave anything off your CV.  DON'T do that. FBI background checks, etc. It WILL be found out.  I don't understand the advice to pretend like it never happened. If you got a paycheck, the fact that you were employed there is on record and will come up in a background check, which most (all?) employers will do.  If you leave it off, you will look like you are lying.  Put it on your CV, then own it and explain it.  You have ample explanation for why it didn't work out.  If the job was outside your scope and experience, then say so.  If it was a personality or philosophical disagreement, say so. If the doc was shady, say so. Own it.  Doing so is an opportunity for you to show that you are ethical and care about doing the right thing and doing so within your scope of practice and experience. Not doing that will dig the hole deeper.  Use it as an opportunity rather than a perceived "failure."  

 

Honestly, I don't think this is right. An FBI-level background check has to do with criminal activity (sealed/expunged arrest records, things of that nature). I do believe that most hospitals do this. Employment verification is typically a form that is sent to past employers from HR. The past employer fills out the form (employment dates, salary, reason for leaving, etc.). I can't see how they could possibly obtain paycheck information unless they ask for a pay stub or a W2, which, in this situation, they would not even know about the job in the first place to ask. I suppose that they could get this info from social security, but I'm pretty sure that the applicant needs to specifically file paperwork for that. I don't think they could simply get this information with a general release of information form (I could be wrong though).

 

Ultimately, OP, I think you should put the job on future applications (not your CV) for integrity and ethical purposes. There is an outside chance that they could find out if they happen to hire someone that worked there and is aware of the situation....and then you'll be in for a bad time.

[Boatswain2PA]

 

Ultimately, OP, I think you should put the job on future applications (not your CV) for integrity and ethical purposes. There is an outside chance that they could find out if they happen to hire someone that worked there and is aware of the situation....and then you'll be in for a bad time.

 

Agreed.  A law enforcement background check is for arrests, charges, tickets, etc.  I would NOT put this on your CV, but you SHOULD put it on any application that specifically asked where you worked.

 

The CV is your advertisement about yourself.  You don't want to be dishonest, but you have no compulsion to list every job you ever had on your CV (I don't).  But on an application if they ask, then you gotta throw it out there.

[aquafresh11]

I had a co worker who had a similar situation, he was fired from a job for shady reasons and was only there for a few weeks. He was honest about it with the clinic who hired him, but he left it off his employment history for hospital privileges application. They do check a database (I want to say it is Provider One) and refused him privileges because he didn't disclose it. He got fired from the new job since he couldn't obtain privileges. 

[lostconfidence]

I had a co worker who had a similar situation, he was fired from a job for shady reasons and was only there for a few weeks. He was honest about it with the clinic who hired him, but he left it off his employment history for hospital privileges application. They do check a database (I want to say it is Provider One) and refused him privileges because he didn't disclose it. He got fired from the new job since he couldn't obtain privileges. 

 

It seems to me that Provider One is for medicaid billing in the state of Washington. Is this something that you have to sign up for? I definitely never signed up to anything like this.

[AliB]

It seems to me that Provider One is for medicaid billing in the state of Washington. Is this something that you have to sign up for? I definitely never signed up to anything like this.

 

 

I think the point is that you don't know when or where it might crop up and the information come to light.  I completely agree it's not applicable information on a CV, but on an employment application, licensing document, credentialing - anything where you are attesting to the truthfulness and completeness of the information, yes, you need to include the very brief time you worked there.  

 

I am not a PA yet, but I do hold DOD clearances and have been subject to other types of background checks that found information about me that was surprising to have come to light or questioned - nothing I ever failed to disclose when it was asked; it would have been a show stopper if I had!  Don't waste your time figuring out if or how anyone could find out.  There's too much electronic information (accurate and inaccurate!).  Assume they can and move on.  

 

As for being "fired", it happens!  You don't have to let it be considered all your fault!  Own your own lack of due diligence for example.  There's been lots of good advice for how to present your "firing" in a neutral, or even positive, light:  you were 'fired' before you could quit?  you were fired without an explanation, but given what you've learned about the employer, your integrity would have compelled you to leave very soon anyway?  When you explain it, just keep it factual, don't belabor it, etc.  Keep the focus in your job hunt on the positive experience and references you have - they cover a much more significant time than a 2 week mistake.  After the next job you have, this one will be barely a blip on your history (if that).  

[lostconfidence]

Another issue that I just found: I was looking at my malpractice paperwork that was given to me by this employer.

 

All it says is that the application is approved and that coverage will be bound upon payment of premium. I have no evidence that they ever paid this premium.

 

Wow. What a stupid mistake on my part. I'm wondering if I was even covered by malpractice insurance during that time. Any thoughts on how to proceed?

[SHU-CH]

Did you have a contract where the employer agreed to provide you with malpractice coverage? If so and they breached the contract, it is likely their problem, not yours. Even if you didn't have a contract, unless you are extremely wealthy you are not an attractive target to sue. Lawyers like big insurance policies they can go after for millions.

 

If you think your boss was fradulently billing that they were seeing the patient, that can also help get you off the hook.

[lostconfidence]

Did you have a contract where the employer agreed to provide you with malpractice coverage? If so and they breached the contract, it is likely their problem, not yours. Even if you didn't have a contract, unless you are extremely wealthy you are not an attractive target to sue. Lawyers like big insurance policies they can go after for millions.

 

If you think your boss was fradulently billing that they were seeing the patient, that can also help get you off the hook.

 

Nope, no contract. I'm sure the employer did that intentionally.

 

And, yes, I do believe the employer was fraudulently billing. The note isn't even in my name on the EMR and it is signed off by him (though he told me to write at the bottom that the note was completed by me). It was a paper billing system and the billing document (that I had been signing) was in his name.

 

This is what prompted me to look further into his past and, eventually, discovering the Medicare fraud.

 

So, with the exception of my signature, the billing is in his name and the EMR is in his name (except with my name at the bottom, simply stating "Note complete by _____".

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

Still doesn't mean that they can't sue and carry it out to discovery at which point they realize that there is no cash to take, i.e.- how would the plaintiff know that there isn't a big trust fund for this individual?  To answer the question with regard to coverage, call the carrier and ask?  You know the coverage provider.  I did the same thing when I changed jobs last year and a new clinic/manager/employer weren't sure as to claims-made or occurrence based policy status.  I got the policy number, the contact sales representative, contacted the company once I got the name from the sales rep, and confirmed it was claims-made (I then went back to my own occurrence based policy for safekeeping).  The policy was for the employer but I was still able to find out the details of coverage from simply stating that I would be/was a covered entity.

[lostconfidence]

Still doesn't mean that they can't sue and carry it out to discovery at which point they realize that there is no cash to take, i.e.- how would the plaintiff know that there isn't a big trust fund for this individual?  To answer the question with regard to coverage, call the carrier and ask?  You know the coverage provider.  I did the same thing when I changed jobs last year and a new clinic/manager/employer weren't sure as to claims-made or occurrence based policy status.  I got the policy number, the contact sales representative, contacted the company once I got the name from the sales rep, and confirmed it was claims-made (I then went back to my own occurrence based policy for safekeeping).  The policy was for the employer but I was still able to find out the details of coverage from simply stating that I would be/was a covered entity.

 

Yeah I'll do that.

 

I guess if I'm not covered, at least it was approved so maybe I could just pay for it now out-of-pocket. Cross that bridge when I get to it, I suppose.

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

Don't know that you can retroactively put yourself under coverage after you have left the employer who owns the policy, assuming that there is one in effect to begin with.  I think this ship has sailed.

[lostconfidence]

I think the point is that you don't know when or where it might crop up and the information come to light.  I completely agree it's not applicable information on a CV, but on an employment application, licensing document, credentialing - anything where you are attesting to the truthfulness and completeness of the information, yes, you need to include the very brief time you worked there.  

 

I am not a PA yet, but I do hold DOD clearances and have been subject to other types of background checks that found information about me that was surprising to have come to light or questioned - nothing I ever failed to disclose when it was asked; it would have been a show stopper if I had!  Don't waste your time figuring out if or how anyone could find out.  There's too much electronic information (accurate and inaccurate!).  Assume they can and move on.  

 

As for being "fired", it happens!  You don't have to let it be considered all your fault!  Own your own lack of due diligence for example.  There's been lots of good advice for how to present your "firing" in a neutral, or even positive, light:  you were 'fired' before you could quit?  you were fired without an explanation, but given what you've learned about the employer, your integrity would have compelled you to leave very soon anyway?  When you explain it, just keep it factual, don't belabor it, etc.  Keep the focus in your job hunt on the positive experience and references you have - they cover a much more significant time than a 2 week mistake.  After the next job you have, this one will be barely a blip on your history (if that).  

 

This is a good point and I have decided to disclose the information on my application and to employers on an interview (but not on my CV). Honestly, I can't even think about it without tearing up. So maybe that will give me points for integrity and being genuine.

 

I absolutely have learned a lot from this experience. Can't deny that.

 

Thanks for the advice!

[lostconfidence]

Don't know that you can retroactively put yourself under coverage after you have left the employer who owns the policy, assuming that there is one in effect to begin with.  I think this ship has sailed.

 

So then I'm pretty much screwed? If I get sued, I could lose all of my savings.

[Boatswain2PA]

Don't lose sleep over the risk of lawsuit.  The risk of lawsuit on any given patient is very small, but of course cumulative.  You were only there for a short time, and only saw relatively few patients.  Your risk of lawsuit is very, very minimal.  Likely greater risk you will be in catastrophic car accident today.  

 

And IF you are named in lawsuit, then your attorney will be able to point to the practice.  I wouldn't worry about it unless you have significant wealth (approaching millions).  And if you DO have that, then you need to do some wealth management to structure your wealth so that the lawyers can't ever get it. 

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

Don't lose sleep over the risk of lawsuit.  The risk of lawsuit on any given patient is very small, but of course cumulative.  You were only there for a short time, and only saw relatively few patients.  Your risk of lawsuit is very, very minimal.  Likely greater risk you will be in catastrophic car accident today.  

 

And IF you are named in lawsuit, then your attorney will be able to point to the practice.  I wouldn't worry about it unless you have significant wealth (approaching millions).  And if you DO have that, then you need to do some wealth management to structure your wealth so that the lawyers can't ever get it. 

 

 

If there is no malpractice coverage then legal counsel would have to come out-of-pocket which for the OP may be cost prohibitive.  I agree, risk is low, but risk does still exist.  As has been pointed out many times previously, get your own coverage which follows you wherever you go, even if it is for the minimal amount, just so legal coverage is provided.