Sick days not paid out upon resignation

[RealityCheck]

I have resigned my position within a corporate medicine clinic.

 

I had to dig to find an HR rep to ask questions.

They "do not have a very formal departure process".

 

No payout for vacation or sick time. Insurance lasts till end of month.

No exit interview.

 

She can't answer my questions about flexible spending but referred me to a 1-800 number somewhere.

 

Moral/Ethical/Professional Question:

 

Do you use the sick time during your resignation time left?

Is that petty?

 

My inner being says - don't use it - be the professional - work out the days you have left no matter how miserable they are making it.

 

I do find it hard to believe that an institution with over 5000 employees has no formal departure process and no exit interview for a medical professional.

In retrospect - probably has a lot to do with folks not staying around here very long........................

[Purrpa]

I hope you take this opportunity to write a review on Glassdoor. I've found such reviews to be "spot on". The article below is excellent & hopefully HR & CEOs are paying attention. Of course the article is referring specifically to *great millennial physicians*, but should be referring to *great employees*. Period.

 

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2015/08/how-to-hire-a-great-millennial-physician.html

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[cbrsmurf]

Doesn't it depend on state law whether sick days are paid out or not upon leaving a job?

[RealityCheck]

Doesn't it depend on state law whether sick days are paid out or not upon leaving a job?

Per the State of Washington L&I website:

Paid vacation, holiday, and sick leave and severance pay are considered voluntary benefits that a business may choose to offer workers. Washington State law does not require a business to provide these benefits. Even though there is no state law requiring a business to pay these benefits upon termination, if the business promises workers these benefits and does not follow through, workers can contact an attorney or file in small claims court for their unpaid benefits.

[chatcat]

 

 

My inner being says - don't use it - be the professional - work out the days you have left no matter how miserable they are making it.

 

 

 

Listen to your intuition and remain professional to the end of your employment with this employer. 

I've never received compensation for unused sick time when I left a employer and know how difficult it can be to endure those last days on a bad job.

Hang in there...and good luck with your next job!

[EMEDPA]

if they are PTO days, take them as vacation. If they are sick days, only take them if sick. I might increase my definition of sick a bit though during the transition time to include such things as " I worked until 2 am last night when my shift was over at midnight so I'm not up for being back at 10 am because I'm too tired".

when I left a prior long time job sick leave was part of PTO. my cash out was over 14k after taxes.

[RealityCheck]

I won't get squat. They don't cash out anything.

More disappointed in no exit interview and no real process to losing a medical provider.

 

Referencing the article from purrpa - I am only a cog in a machine and they believe that cogs are interchangeable, in high supply and equally qualified but not ever as valuable or knowledgeable as a physician. 

 

When you place a value on a title instead of a person - a lot gets missed.

[rev ronin]

Use all your resources, including sick leave, in line with their written parameters.  If you're sick, use it. If you're not, don't.

[EMEDPA]

Use all your resources, including sick leave, in line with their written parameters.  If you're sick, use it. If you're not, don't.

my point was "run down from over-work" can legitimately be "sick" as well. If she thinks she can't give 100% at work on certain days for whatever reason, she could legitimately use those sick hours to avoid getting significantly sick.no reason to kill herself for a job she's leaving. at the same time, she still needs to give quality care every day to every patient.

[rev ronin]

I absolutely do not disagree, E.  Thing is, the norm in medicine is to work sick... but when you're leaving, there's really no incentive to do so.

 

The bigger problem in my mind is practitioners who are looked down upon by their peers for USING their sick time.  It's a negotiated benefit, yet old school MDs are often the most reluctant to use theirs, and I've seen other docs who actually USED their allocated sick leave looked down on by their old school peers.

[RealityCheck]

Thanks EMEDPA.

I am going to get through it.

Have a ton of cases to disposition and hand off.

Patients deserve a good outcome.

 

Still sad that they don't wonder why people leave..........................

[EMEDPA]

I absolutely do not disagree, E.  Thing is, the norm in medicine is to work sick... but when you're leaving, there's really no incentive to do so.

 

The bigger problem in my mind is practitioners who are looked down upon by their peers for USING their sick time.  It's a negotiated benefit, yet old school MDs are often the most reluctant to use theirs, and I've seen other docs who actually USED their allocated sick leave looked down on by their old school peers.

at my current job we both get no sick time and have to find our own replacements if sick. this leads to folks working when they are really are too sick to do so. one of my partners on 2 separate occasions has pushed an IV pole around for his entire shift with fluids and a phenergan drip while sick with gastroenteritis. clearly too sick to be at work. we try to cover each other for sick time and family emergencies, but sometimes no one is around and everyone is either already working or out of town. it's not a great system. The docs in the group announce that they are sick and if no doc steps up to cover them they make the PAs cover their shifts. as I said, not ideal.

[KMD16]

Thanks EMEDPA.

I am going to get through it.

Have a ton of cases to disposition and hand off.

Patients deserve a good outcome.

 

Still sad that they don't wonder why people leave..........................

Pack your bags. Move on. Don't look back. A total waste of your time and energy to fight for unpaid sick day. You won't win. Cooperate lawyer are standing by.

 

If you already have another job line up. Stay focus. Focus on transitioning to that new job.

 

You'll be looked down on as a PA no matter where you go. It's sometimes unspoken. A very common practice w/in larger medical establishment. Do your self a favor. If you're leaving. Don't burn your bridges. Do a clean job and depart. My 2c

[TWR]

I too left a job after 4.5 years.  In the contract that I signed when hired it stated that all vacation, sick time, etc. goes off the table when you submit a resignation.  I did not think about it at the time because I took the job with no intention of leaving.  Over my tenure I accumulated 160 hours of unused time partially because I did not take a lot of vacation and some at the request of my collaborating physician that he really needed me during times I wanted off.  I always acquiesced (spelling!)  Bottom line is I left over $8,000 on the table.  I never understood that although I knew it would happen.  I felt I had "earned" that time according to my benefit package and was based on time already served and just not used.

[ventana]

check with state law - state employment office

 

in my state MASS - vacation can not be withheld. 

[sas5814]

I have resigned my position within a corporate medicine clinic.

 

I had to dig to find an HR rep to ask questions.

They "do not have a very formal departure process".

 

No payout for vacation or sick time. Insurance lasts till end of month.

No exit interview.

 

She can't answer my questions about flexible spending but referred me to a 1-800 number somewhere.

 

Moral/Ethical/Professional Question:

 

Do you use the sick time during your resignation time left?

Is that petty?

 

My inner being says - don't use it - be the professional - work out the days you have left no matter how miserable they are making it.

 

I do find it hard to believe that an institution with over 5000 employees has no formal departure process and no exit interview for a medical professional.

In retrospect - probably has a lot to do with folks not staying around here very long........................

Vacation days are money. Sick time is an insurance policy and doesn't have a cash value on departure. Many companies have gone to Paid Time Off and all your time is PTO regardless of how you use it. It also has a cash out value or should.

 

Scott Stegall PA-C

[Sam I Am]

This post brings back an awful reminder of why I had to take my doc to Small Claims for withholding my sick/vacation pay.  Worked 12 hour/days and sometimes 6 days/week.  never was sick, never took vacation.  When I resigned, I made sure to specifically ask about the sick/vacay pay.  Boss indicated that would be paid out. On the last day, literally at the last hour, the boss decided to reneg.  Good thing I kept the email stating the payout.  Anticipating the boss owes me around 16K.  Small claims only allow max of 5K to be recouped.  My life had been hellish since my resignation - had to use my savings and am now poorer than I've ever been since high school.  So, I sucked it up and finally filed a claim 2 days ago.  Since then, I've had this sinking feeling that PAs are disposable and are easily thrown under the bus with very little recourse - especially in a single physician practice.  

[RealityCheck]

SamIAm - 

 

1. Have you talked to state dept of labor? You might not need claims court if your state has laws about it.

2. I work for corporate hell - no better than solo practice. Even valued less as a PA since I do not have an MD/DO behind my name. I am a peon, worker bee, nobody - not what they told me when they hired me.....

3. I will never work without a contract again - sounds tedious. Corporate hell only "employs" us - no contracts for NPs and PAs. Can work for you - can work against you.

4. I am a powerful partner for a practice. I am knowledgeable and revenue producing and a good "presence" for the practice with patient confidence, etc. It has taken me 25 yrs but I am standing up for myself more and more because I am tired of being discounted.

 

The HR person I dug up out of the depths of administration has actually asked me to come talk to her since I was so concerned that they do not have an exit process or an exit interview.

Part of me is painfully suspicious and part of me is anxious to tell my story - so, angst again - Do I say anything about the time here or do I walk away and wonder what happens to the rest of the PAs left here?

Could I possibly be seen as an advocate for my profession or will I be labeled difficult and a trouble maker?

 

Any responses to those thoughts above are greatly appreciated. I can talk a mean talk in the car by myself but might cave in an admin office and let myself down.....

[EMEDPA]

don't cave. speak your mind. you owe them nothing at this point. you already have a new job. they can't hurt you any more.

[Sam I Am]

Hi, yes.  I already checked L&I.  Pretty much told me the same thing you were told - that sick/vacay pay is a voluntary thing.  But, if the employer states that they will pay, they must pay.  And that is what L&I told me to do - take the doc to small claims.  I swore after that incident, I will never work without a contract again.  May be tedious but hope to protect myself in the future.  I've found that no one will advocate for the PA so I'm learning the hard way to basically tell these docs to shove it and to walk away from something if it's a bad fit.  Not all docs were cut out to be business folks and must be reminded that they're not above reproach.  I'm trying to defend the PA profession - one small step at a time.  I'm learning how to negotiate and it's hard but I'm doing it.  

[RealityCheck]

Best Wishes for you small claims, Sam I Am.

 

I am buoying my courage and choosing my words for this HR meeting. I have to rehearse out the knee-jerk reaction words including WTH and are-you-kidding me!

 

I am thinking more and more that we need to compile our stories and present them to the admins on this site and to AAPA and our state groups. If we give them the rehash of what we deal with and put it in the light of change, advocacy, proper employment and advancement - we might make some headway.

 

Keep us posted on the outcome!!

[rev ronin]

Remember, HR and exit interviews exist for one purpose only: To reduce the risk of employer liability and lawsuit payout.

 

If they can reduce the chance of you filing a meritorious claim against them by simply letting you vent at an HR drone for a half an hour, while they pretend to take notes on issues and recommendations, that was a very good use of that HR drone's time.

[sas5814]

SamIAm - 

 

1. Have you talked to state dept of labor? You might not need claims court if your state has laws about it.

2. I work for corporate hell - no better than solo practice. Even valued less as a PA since I do not have an MD/DO behind my name. I am a peon, worker bee, nobody - not what they told me when they hired me.....

3. I will never work without a contract again - sounds tedious. Corporate hell only "employs" us - no contracts for NPs and PAs. Can work for you - can work against you.

4. I am a powerful partner for a practice. I am knowledgeable and revenue producing and a good "presence" for the practice with patient confidence, etc. It has taken me 25 yrs but I am standing up for myself more and more because I am tired of being discounted.

 

The HR person I dug up out of the depths of administration has actually asked me to come talk to her since I was so concerned that they do not have an exit process or an exit interview.

Part of me is painfully suspicious and part of me is anxious to tell my story - so, angst again - Do I say anything about the time here or do I walk away and wonder what happens to the rest of the PAs left here?

Could I possibly be seen as an advocate for my profession or will I be labeled difficult and a trouble maker?

 

Any responses to those thoughts above are greatly appreciated. I can talk a mean talk in the car by myself but might cave in an admin office and let myself down.....

I think a mature professional conversation with positive suggestions can only be a good thing. Don't devolve into anger or accusations. (It is easy advice to give but hard to follow. I have a temper that tends to flare at inopportune times.) If they ignore you or try to turn it against you nothing has been lost. Their broken system remains broken. If something changes you have done a good thing for those who follow you.

[CAdamsPAC]

The idea that providers must sacrifice their well being for the greater good is Bovine Scatology, organization will and do milk the life out of people and them cop an attitude when the person says enough. Pulling prolonged unpaid and more often than not 10-14 hour shifts isn't acceptable and should not be perpetuated by our peers. I think the practice described is a pretty crappy place and I wouldn't go out of my way to accommodate an abusive / demeaning workplace. You are leaving for a reason, they don't care, so take care of you and forget them.

[TWR]

One word answer...........INDEPENDENCE!   If the NPs can do it we can and should!  All the gripes on almost all the posts on this forum and other forums revolve around our situation of not having a voice in any decision making.