sw336019 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I know this is not a good offer, but I want to know if it's worth neogtiating or too far off the mark. I graduated a year ago, but have not worked yet as a PA due some family issues. I wish this had not been the case but it is what is. Due to this, I am aware that I am undervaluing myself because I have not been in the clinical setting for a while. I had my first interview at a family practice in a small community in NE Pennsylvania. I really like the office and the community it serves. I think the position would be great for experience, but I don't know that they value the PA as they should. It's a Physician owned practice with one other Physician on staff and 2 PAs. The practice has been owned for <10 years. The buiding is owned by the managing physician and is leased out by a local hospital for specialists to have access to the area. The building is also a Quest draw site and has a radiology service and pharmacy on site. The physician states she has 18 people on staff. I received an offer at the interview for $70,000 (I had stated 80K and was told this was the top end for a new grad in the area, which I have seen in one survey somewhere, but that was the only one). It was also reinforced that as a new grad there is no profitability over the first year. (the physician's husband was in the interview because he is the IT guy/numbers guy/helps with management, etc.) Contract is for 3 years. Performance review after first 90days, but no mention of review or contract negotiation in the contract. 40hr/week. 1 saturday every 3-4 weeks with a comp day the week before. Would not work Sat until MD comfortable with me on my own. Call for one week a month for reassurance but they said you dont get a lot of calls. Not expected to take call immediately. I would have to use my own cell phone. Expected to be up to 20-25pts/day after ~3-6 months or when we both feel comfortable. No healthcare coverage. I negotiated to have them cover my premium. After reading the contract it states UP TO $300. I am paying for my own currently and have a high deductible. Was hoping to have a better situation with a job and something to offer the family. 10 PTO, 3 sick/personal days, 6 federal holidays. NO rollover. $800 for CME and no time off for CME. I negotiated 3 days. I have been involved in AAPA HOD and would like to continue this, but this makes it a little difficult. They stated they cover malpractice, but there is no mention in the contract. So I don't even know what or if it covers tail. 401K with matching after 1 year. I asked about professional/licensing/DEA fees and they stated that could be submitted and reimbursed, but again not in the contract, so I don't know to what amount. I know the things that are not in the contract need to be included. This was my first interview, first offer, first contract, so I did not cover all the questions I had up front as I was not prepared for the offer. I did not read the contract until I left. I do have 3 maybe 5 more interviews in the next 2 weeks. Any thoughts? Advice? Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 RUN, no spouses should be employed in the practice. It is a death sentence. There is no loyalty to anyone but the physician - ever - right or wrong. I have made this mistake and it is NOT WORTH IT. Do not undervalue yourself. The benefits you listed suck - frankly - suck. If it isn't in the contract - it doesn't exist. This has bad vibes all over. I would pass and move on. You deserve better and are certainly worth more to a practice. 25 years in - been there, done that Just my two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediMike Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Terrible. Bad salary. Bad benefits. Bad environment. You'll see better stuff in the next couple of interviews, get away from these folks! Addendum: After re-reading your post, these are actually horrible benefits. They are absolutely nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I was quick on my first reply - looked at each individually. Anxious to see what others post........... I know this is not a good offer, but I want to know if it's worth neogtiating or too far off the mark. I graduated a year ago, but have not worked yet as a PA due some family issues. I wish this had not been the case but it is what is. Due to this, I am aware that I am undervaluing myself because I have not been in the clinical setting for a while. I had my first interview at a family practice in a small community in NE Pennsylvania. I really like the office and the community it serves. I think the position would be great for experience, but I don't know that they value the PA as they should. It's a Physician owned practice with one other Physician on staff and 2 PAs. The practice has been owned for <10 years. The buiding is owned by the managing physician and is leased out by a local hospital for specialists to have access to the area. The building is also a Quest draw site and has a radiology service and pharmacy on site. The physician states she has 18 people on staff. I received an offer at the interview for $70,000 (I had stated 80K and was told this was the top end for a new grad in the area, which I have seen in one survey somewhere, but that was the only one). It was also reinforced that as a new grad there is no profitability over the first year. (the physician's husband was in the interview because he is the IT guy/numbers guy/helps with management, etc.) Minimum $85K starting. Husband in practice - BAD, EVIL, NOT OK, CAN'T SAY ENOUGH HOW THIS IS NOT OK Contract is for 3 years. Performance review after first 90days, but no mention of review or contract negotiation in the contract. Contract for one year with renegotiation, first year, review at 90 days and 6 months then yearly. Long term contracts are bad. Make sure it states how you separate - how much notice 30, 60, 90, 120 days? Is your state at-will or right to work? 40hr/week. 1 saturday every 3-4 weeks with a comp day the week before. Would not work Sat until MD comfortable with me on my own. Call for one week a month for reassurance but they said you dont get a lot of calls. Not expected to take call immediately. I would have to use my own cell phone. Expected to be up to 20-25pts/day after ~3-6 months or when we both feel comfortable. - Pay for at least half of your cell phone bill and make sure you know how to block calls so patients do not get your cell number when you call No healthcare coverage. I negotiated to have them cover my premium. After reading the contract it states UP TO $300. I am paying for my own currently and have a high deductible. Was hoping to have a better situation with a job and something to offer the family. Absolutely unacceptable. At least pay your premium and perhaps part of your family. You need dental and vision too and options for self funded STD, LTD 10 PTO, 3 sick/personal days, 6 federal holidays. NO rollover. PTO frontloaded, not earned by pay period. 20 days minimum for new grad with prorated for remainder of calendar year. Increased with time of employment. Sick time is often 20 days at corporate medicine level but should be 10 at least in my opinion. Holidays are New Years Day, Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and Christmas Day. Check on the day after Thanksgiving as many practices are closed that day. No rollover is common but many employers allow an accumulation of sick days up to 200 hours or so - think appendectomy, hysterectomy, broken bone....... $800 for CME and no time off for CME. I negotiated 3 days. I have been involved in AAPA HOD and would like to continue this, but this makes it a little difficult. Never seen less than $1500-2000 for CME and sometimes more if remote location. CME days 3-5 on top of other days They stated they cover malpractice, but there is no mention in the contract. So I don't even know what or if it covers tail. In the contract, company listed, SAME limits as physician and tail coverage 401K with matching after 1 year. Meh, average I asked about professional/licensing/DEA fees and they stated that could be submitted and reimbursed, but again not in the contract, so I don't know to what amount. ALL licensure fees paid BY THEM, not reimbursement and negotiate for AAPA, state association, county medical society or other specialty group you want OUTSIDE of your CME budget. I know the things that are not in the contract need to be included. This was my first interview, first offer, first contract, so I did not cover all the questions I had up front as I was not prepared for the offer. I did not read the contract until I left. If it is not in the contract, it doesn't exist - period. It cost me $250 to have an employment attorney review my contract - he saved my professional integrity and I have sent him 15 new clients. It was worth every penny. Don't skimp. I do have 3 maybe 5 more interviews in the next 2 weeks. Any thoughts? Advice? Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnson2018pac Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 As others have told you, don't even bother negotiating...Sounds like a toxic environment. I had way better benefits and almost the same pay when I worked in radiology with an associates degree.... and I don't even live in a high cost of living area! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delco714 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Why don't you come up to Maine, make $30k more and have 3x the days off with Rock solid benefits. My way of saying just forget this job entirely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyM2 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Although I agree this job isn't worth pursuing, I think that, as a general rule, you should ask to have an opportunity to speak to the other PAs in a practice. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw336019 Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 Thank you for all your input and advise. That's the feeling I had, just needed some confirmation. I'm glad I have other interviews at the same time, so I know there are other opportunities. I may be meeting with one of the PAs in the practice, but I'm pretty sure of the direction this is going. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted August 27, 2015 Moderator Share Posted August 27, 2015 I will play a little devils advocate you have not worked for a year..... might just want to take a job - but with out a contract so in 6-12 months you can move on.... that first job is always the hardest and not working the first year out of school does not look good, and is not good for your knowledge base..... perfect for a residency.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw336019 Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 Ventana~ what you said is something that has been in the back of my mind too. Especially because I do think it would be a great place for experience and learning. However, I don't think this position would be one with a possibility of starting without a contract. They were very sure they wanted to hire someone who they felt would stay with them for a while (hence, the 3 year contract?). I am meeting with the PA tomorrow, so I will see how it goes. I would love a residency, but those I could apply to now wouldn't even start until the early winter/spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunafish Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 So they want to pay you 70K, give you no bennies for 3 years... that "husband" is a smart man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 perfect for a residency.... To be honest, I have to disagree with this. They aren't really designed for folks that have been out of the game. It may be a learning environment but it's not one that holds your hand when you don't know anything day 1 after not practicing for a year. You will be miserable if you can't keep up. That's not to say someone can't do well, but they certainly aren't the ideal candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 The salary/benefits package can tell you a lot about a job and how you will be valued within that setting. What do you think this offer is telling you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZPAC Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 they are going to have to invest time in you and they have risk also. that is worth something. however, i guarantee if you end up seeing 20 patients a day you are not making all that much. i would keep looking at different jobs. there are plenty out there available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will352ns Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Don't even consider this offer. It is really that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillycibin Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Terrible contract. Never sign a three year contract. I've never heard of such a thing. But... you need to get a job asap. 1 year not practicing and you did this as a new grad, not even after having gotten your foundation down. You should have been volunteering at a free clinic at the least. Seriously, get a job or you won't even be allowed to practice by your medical board without a remediation plan put in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw336019 Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 sillycibin, I do appreciate your concern, and I am aware of this. I have been volunteering and doing CME work, trying to do what I could during this time. All I can say is it was a difficult situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike mike Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I would love a residency, but those I could apply to now wouldn't even start until the early winter/spring. You can always contact the programs to see if they would allow you to start early. It is not unheard of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjohpac Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 3 year contract alone is a big no no. I'm not even going touch the fact that the salary is 70k with no benefits. It also sounds like they think they're doing you a favor when they said they won't make any money on you the first year. That is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted August 30, 2015 Moderator Share Posted August 30, 2015 Just to shed some light on the financial side pure speculation here Salary 70 bennies at most 10k cost to practice to have you 80k/yr or about $1500 per week If you take 6 weeks off it is $1740/week If they average $65/patient for reimbursement (should easily make this mark even with a crappy collections) that is 27 patients So if you see 6 patients a day, and work 5 days a week - you cover your salary!!!! To say that you will not make money in the first year is simply a lie and meant to deceive you................... It is reasonable to see about 50 patients a week as a new grad and this puts the clinic at a profit of about $1500....... They are taking advantage of you, and NEVER sign a 3 year contract, and in general this offer is HORRIBLE! But it is an offer, and if they were willing to do a one year contract, it is atleast a job!!!!! Just don't bind yourself with a long duration, and don't think for a minute that you will not make them money after the first 6 months...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I just signed a three year contract. Am I doomed? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted August 30, 2015 Moderator Share Posted August 30, 2015 I just signed a three year contract. Am I doomed? lol I'm guessing your pay and benefits are a bit better than those outlined here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I just signed a three year contract. Am I doomed? lol Tell us about it!!!! I'm excited for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I have never seen a 3 yr contract before - with the one exception of a loan repayment issue where the physician provided loan repayment - it did not go well in the end, unfortunately. It seems too binding in such a changing landscape as medicine. The "non compete" clause if of more concern to me as many practices want to set limits on miles away and what types of practice they would consider a threat to their livelihood. Those bother me more. I wonder if this is a new trend or there is some stimulus for this type of contract from the employer's side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Tell us about it!!!! I'm excited for you! Thanks :) Feel free to PM/email me for more details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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