Iain1028 Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Jeez, let us take a vote and change the name.... Logistics, schmogistics. Or does the AAPA need endless focus groups, and meetings about meetings, and years and years of diddling about like a dotting college professor with a bow tie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPE5 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Revisiting an old thread, with a perennial issue that probably needs to be pushed harder to become a priority. I was thinking the other day about how there's such standardization across PA programs in terms of subject matter and training, but so little in terms of what the academic degree is called. A Master's in "Physician Assistant Studies" strikes me as very weak; studying literature or chemistry or history means something, but studying "PA Studies" is vague as hell. It's also self-referencing, and kind of tautological. Doesn't Yale still offer a "Master's in Medical Science"? That sounds great, plus it's clear, plus it's accurate. My program at least offered an MS in "Physician Assistant Practice," which is tons better than "PA Studies," but it still irks me 7 years later that the word "medicine" or "medical" is not in there somewhere. PA practice, in the real world, is one of the ways in which medicine is practiced, after all. It's not like medicine is one thing, and physician assistanting is something else. So our problem of what we are and the role we play is undermined by the word "Assistant," which even the AAPA has admitted gets in the way, but I think the problem starts before that, with our academic programs. How would PAFT feel about trying to open up a dialogue with ARC-PA about standardizing the name of the academic degree program that leads to qualification for the clinical role for PAs? No doubt there would be all sorts of push-back about printing new stationery and potentially confusing applicants and preceptors, but those obstacles are frankly pretty trivial. I think this is going to be a grass-roots thing, so let's go as far upstream as we can, right? I agree Febrifuge! It has always bugged me that the MPAS means Master's in PA Studies. Who really wants a Master's degree in studying PAs? We would be a rather interesting group of people to study but it adds nothing to patient care....LOL! I vote PAFT think about adding this to our agenda and approach ARC-PA and petition that all PA programs be called MMSc degrees. I imagine the red tape will be with the individual universities and colleges whose inner working and layers of bureaucracy will impeded the designation change for 100s of years. PA applicant here, but felt this was an appropriate time for me to chime in. One thing to consider is that there are already an abundance of Master of Medical Science degrees out there. Heck, I graduated from one this past May, so I don't believe it's as simple as having the ARC-PA standardize the language to MMSc. That could, potentially, lead to more confusion as lay people start Googling "MMSc degrees" and get conflicting program goals, degree requirements, curriculums, etc. It should also be noted that most of these programs state that they act as launching platforms for students interested in pursuing further degrees in the medical field (MD, DDS, DVM, PA, etc.) You'd basically be asking the ARC-PA to enact a standardization of language for PA programs and require all the existing MMSc degrees that aren't associated with PA programs to change the title of their established degrees. Below is a sampling of programs I pulled from a Google search. https://graduate.med.uky.edu/master-science-medical-sciences http://drexel.edu/medicine/Academics/Graduate-School/Medical-Science/ https://www.unthsc.edu/graduate-school-of-biomedical-sciences/formerly-the-post-baccalaureate-premedical-program/ http://www.bumc.bu.edu/gms/masters-in-medical-sciences/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febrifuge Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Interesting, and I was not previously aware that the MMSc gets used in that way. It might make a difference, but really I doubt the public at large is going to know or care that others (especially people in medicine-adjacent fields) also get the degree. If MDs start there and then go on to an MD, fine - I doubt there are a ton of them, anyway, since the MD has a bachelor's as pre-requisite, just like PA education does. If there's a better way to standardize the Masters that new PAs earn, we can totally talk about it. My goal is really more about taking the "PA Studies" out of the degree title, since it's weak for all the reasons noted above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDT83 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 I think that we as Physician Assistants need to realize that NP's are not "playing nice". It has been my experience (still in school) that the PAs I meet on rotations try to get along with the NP's and never talk bad about them. However, the leadership for NP's as are attempting to place themselves above PAs in level of education and have many more resources aimed at influencing media and legislation that will put them in a more favorable light. It has been my experience that this is not done in an overtly hostile way but rather they are very "passive-aggressive" in the way that they attack PAs. I'm not sure of the correct way to go about confronting this, but I think that the first step in finding a way to confront this problem is that we recognize that they are not our allies. (Although on a personal/clinical level there are many that are great to work with and do not act this way). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted January 8, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 8, 2017 NP's place themselves above everyone and hence part of the reason why they are succesful in the political realm - they believe in themselves... I hear it less and less these days but in the past I have heard PAs state they are fine with just taking a good paycheck, and being the scribe, assistant, helper... (grrrrrr gets me even to think about it....) We (AAPA via PAFT) is learning this lesson..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfine Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 I think that we as Physician Assistants need to realize that NP's are not "playing nice". It has been my experience (still in school) that the PAs I meet on rotations try to get along with the NP's and never talk bad about them. However, the leadership for NP's as are attempting to place themselves above PAs in level of education and have many more resources aimed at influencing media and legislation that will put them in a more favorable light. It has been my experience that this is not done in an overtly hostile way but rather they are very "passive-aggressive" in the way that they attack PAs. I'm not sure of the correct way to go about confronting this, but I think that the first step in finding a way to confront this problem is that we recognize that they are not our allies. (Although on a personal/clinical level there are many that are great to work with and do not act this way).I agree with you, although not all NPs are this way. Im a pre-PA working as a medical assistant, when I decided to go the PA route and not the nursing route, one of the NPs I worked with started challenging my decision and would argue with the other PAs about the differences between the programs. Nurses are trained to think that one, their schooling is the hardest, and two they are elitist (not all, but I've worked with my share). NPs think that because they have the clinical background they are above PAs. I personally chose the PA route because you are trained in evidence-based medicine and with the same guidelines as our docs. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted January 22, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 22, 2017 I agree with you, although not all NPs are this way. Im a pre-PA working as a medical assistant, when I decided to go the PA route and not the nursing route, one of the NPs I worked with started challenging my decision and would argue with the other PAs about the differences between the programs. Nurses are trained to think that one, their schooling is the hardest, and two they are elitist (not all, but I've worked with my share). NPs think that because they have the clinical background they are above PAs. I personally chose the PA route because you are trained in evidence-based medicine and with the same guidelines as our docs. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk don't forget many practicing PAs used to be paramedics, military medics/corpsmen, nurses, resp therapists, etc before PA school too...I would stack my BS in medical anthropology, my 1 year medic program, and my 10 years as an ER tech/paramedic/medical assistant/phlebotomist against most RNs with regards to a quality medical background Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfine Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 don't forget many practicing PAs used to be paramedics, military medics/corpsmen, nurses, resp therapists, etc before PA school too...I would stack my BS in medical anthropology, my 1 year medic program, and my 10 years as an ER tech/paramedic/medical assistant/phlebotomist against most RNs with regards to a quality medical backgroundOh, trust me I know!! And absolutely agree with you. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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