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NEED ADVICE - Architect to PA (with AF Pararescue)


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I’m looking to change careers and would love to get your advice.

 

Briefly about me:  I’m a 30 year old architect who’s looking to change careers.  After years of debating, I decided to enlist in the Navy for special forces Explosive Ordinance Disposal (EOD), looking for a more interesting, physical challenge.  I’ve earned my contract for the job and now I’m in a delayed entry program, which means I don’t plan to leave for a few months.  I still had my doubts if I’m making the right choice (I can still back out if I want), so I met with a career counselor.  My results came back with a 100% match for physician assistant and physical therapist.  After my research, the flexibility, amount of education, lifestyle, and salary, PA seems like the better route. 

 

Before going to PA school, I would need to go back and take my remaining science classes, which may take a while.  I’ve considered night classes, but I would still like to use military to pay for education (I currently have zero debt and it’d be nice to keep it that way).  I found out that Air Force has a program called Pararescue, which focuses a lot around EMT.  I’m thinking that could expose me to the medical field, while paying for undergrad, giving me a leg-up when applying for jobs, and fulfilling my desire to do something adventurous and fulfilling. 

 

Here's my idea:  

  1. Enlist into the Air Force and work my way into the Pararescue program.
  2. After military training, I'm allowed to take college courses on my free time.  Sign up to take the required remaining courses to become eligible for med-school.
  3. Serve my time in the special forces
  4. When completed, sign up for the officer program in military medical field, specializing in Physician Assistant.  (I'm still finding out if having experience in Pararescue would qualify for substituting classes.)
  5. Receive a scholarship that will grant me 100% coverage of tuition, books, and a monthly $2,000 stipend.  
  6. To my knowledge, military requires you to serve 1-year for every year of school you attend (or maybe it’s an additional year after 4?)
  7. Serve a few years in AF as a PA.
  8. Either stay in the AF for 20 years or leave after 2-3 years with no college debt.
  9. Work as a PA full-time, save responsibly, work for as long as I feel comfortable, and retire comfortably.

If anyone has some experience with a similar route or just has advice, I’d love to hear it.  

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There are many points of potential failure in your above listed plan.

For starters, the attrition rate for PJs hovers at 90%. You could potentially make it, but the odds aren't in your favor.

 

There are much easier direct routes to being a PA.

 

Here is a route you could take:

Enlist in the Army NG or Reserve to become a medic. There are flight medic jobs available in many states.

Graduate from AIT, serve with you unit, and take classes at you college or university. Use the GI Bill and Tuition Assistance to pay for your classes.

You could then apply for a slot with IPAP - the Interservice Physician Assistant Program. Here, you would get a great PA education, a Masters and Bachelors degree, and it is all paid for (with a salary while you are in school).

 

Your service obligation after graduating IPAP would be 6 years of drilling in the Guard or Reserve.

 

This route gets you the "adventure" of being a flight medic and a PA education with zero debt.

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Edit: I answer your questions at the end.

 

PJ (pararescueman) training is to the Air Force what BUD/S is to the Navy.  It is very rigorous and very selective school; the majority of enrollees are either dropped or drop out voluntarily.  PJ is not for those who want an EMT-P in the military, but rather for knuckleheads who enjoy being punished to the brink of physical breakage for fun.  PJs come out of their pipeline as a licensed paramedic, whereas MSOB Corpsman have to fight just to be able to get an EMT-P on the side.

 

If you are interested in the military, take a look at the Navy Corpsman.  As a Corpsman I saw MANY patients for sickcall, including full examination notes with diagnosis, treatment, prescriptions and follow up, all bottom lined by the unit physician.  Stuff like URIs, UTIs, ITBS, pneumonia, dislocations, iritis.  I carried and administered lots of meds, given countless vaccinations including anthrax and taught countless Marines basic trauma management.  I trained, ate, lived with and slept amongst Marine infantryman every day and wore their uniform with a US NAVY nametape across it.  During deployments I carried narcotics and a field srug kit alongside two firearms and grenades.  I also trained and deployed with a former Force Recon unit (I never did the Recon pipeline, I was just a tagalong for a single deployment), trained in a simulation house in Iraq alongside some CAG guys (Delta Force, as the media likes to call them), and have been all over the pacific including Guam, Korea (on the DMZ, and a little bit across it), Philippines, Japan, Australia...and were it not for the economy crashing I would add Italy to that list as well.  I got to live on the beach in Orange County CA for a good bit of my time in, got to shoot 10s of 1000s of rounds of ammo, drop a few mortar rounds, attend some stellar schools (including one taught by the doc in charge of the first response team during the USS Cole bombing, and another hush-hush school out in the sticks where we got to see and treat live trauma and witnessed a field chest crack...ever seen a heart beat or lungs inflate in the chest?  Amazing.), send casualties off on medevacs and run after bad guys all over western Iraq.  If you are of age to partake in adult libations: I've walked into numerous bars in uniform with Marines and had drinks handed to me before I even got to a seat at the bar.  Walked in to a standing ovation once, that was pretty awesome.  Many times I've met fellow barfolk who have taken my buddies and I into their homes and gave us a place to crash.

 

The Army's IPAP program though, developed the first (and now 1 out of only 2) doctorate program for PAs which is pretty sweet if you are interested in emergency medicine.  You could, just as easily, get into any other branch as a PA though.  The Navy hands out scholarships on a first come, first serve basis if you are accepted to a school.  The Navy does have an ED residency for PAs.  Not sure about the Chair Force.

 

You might also look into Navy rescue swimmers.   Pretty badass bunch - I think they get a paramedic license but my memory on that is fuzzy and cursory google results don't help much.  The school is tough, but worlds easier than Air Force PJ.  If that sounds the least bit interesting to you, you might also consider Coast Guard rescue swimmer.

 

A big part of me wishes I would have stayed in, though I've been known to romanticize and be nostalgic.   Best of luck to you.

 

PS forgot to answer you questions:

 

PJ classes will not sub for PA pre-reqs, no military training will.  What you will get is a joint service transcript by the American association of college credits (or something like that) full of units that are potentially applicable toward general education units in college, but will mostly just serve to grant you senior status which helps with scheduling.  I was able to partly use some of my training to help meet some A/P pre-reqs, but that training would not satisfy those pre-reqs on its own.  Generally, your training will be viewed as an experience and will not be given any kind of academic recognition with respect to PA/med school.

 

If I were you, I would not take pre-med classes on the side while in the service; if you are interested in SF, you won't have the time it takes to attend labs and earn competitive grades.  Your life will consist of shooting, tactics, sleeping, deploying, shooting, shooting, shooting, tactics, deploying, etc. PJs will also have CMEs and countless trauma scenarios.  Earn the GI bill and enroll in college full time after you get out.

 

Repayment for DoD scholarships is generally year-for-year with a minimum and residency is not counted as payback time.

 

It is good time to start figuring out whether you want an MD or to be a PA.  These are two very different career paths to take, and both are treated very differently in a military hospital.  The only way to figure this out is to get your hands on patients and start exposing yourself to either profession in a clinical setting.  Paid time for both options is the best experience.

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Great replies, fellas.  Thanks for the feedback.

 

I'm still investigating PJs, but I'll investigate alternate routes to being a PA in the military.  Army NGs and flight medics are in scope.  

 

I'm also looking at the following:

 

Special Forces Medic (18D)

Marine Recon SARC

Navy SAR swimmer

Air Force IDMT

Navy Corpsman

Army Combat Medic

 

If you have any suggestions on these, let me know.

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You may be interested in knowing that, battalion recon (where most recon SARCs live and play) is not really SF, per se (potential flame war right here...) but rather more like advanced infantry.  Typically, they are tasked out to deploying MGTAFs in order to be the forward eyes and ears of the grunt battalion COs.  (enough jargon yet?)  They do some high speed schools and live on their own part of the base, but they are under division, not SF command.  MSOB recruits some of their members from battalion recon, they are under JSOC and deploy independent of the grunts, often on with joint commands.

 

Recon Corpsman take the BRT (recon school) screening during the regular old Marine Corps indoc school.  Neither btl recon nor MSOB docs do 18D.  Things may have changed since I've been in...

 

Navy Independent Duty Corpsman is a sweet gig.  They are exactly halfway between a Corpsman and PA, with limited prescribing power.  Surface and sub IDCs have been hot fill billets for the past few years, but you have to be an E5 to apply, with some E4 waivers granted according to the CANTRAC.

 

You have some lofty goals set; were I you, I would take a route that guarantees me something worthwhile if I were to wash out of the SF pipeline.  For example, going the Corpsman route will mean that, even if you wash out of BRT, you will be sent back to the fleet as a Corpsman.  It used to be the case that SEALs could only join from a source rating, and if one washed out of BUD/S, one was sent back to the fleet as that rating which tended to be boatswain's mates, storekeepers, etc.

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Wow...

Ok, I worked battalion recon as a corpsman many, many years ago. I've worked with EOD, 18D, PJs, IDMTs and many IDCs; good friends with a career rescue swimmer.

THESE ARE NOT STEPPING STONES, THEY ARE DEDICATED WAYS OF LIFE.

 

If you want to be a PA, go do the pre-reqs and be a PA. If you want to enlist, then do so. I applauded whichever path you choose, as this country needs plenty of both. But, these two goals do not mesh well. Honestly, you are looking at a lot of Hollywood type stuff and the people in many of the career fields you are looking at do not have a schedule steady enough to allow for regularly scheduled science classes.

 

Heck, the ACE credit recommendations for military training are no longer even entered into CASPA: it doesn't count for squat.

 

One minor pet peeve: those army folks with little green berets on their heads (including 18D) are special forces. Everyone else is special operations. The difference can equal a butt kicking in a bar (or a whole lot of pushups in training).

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It's wouldn't be easy or probably even doable within a reasonable time frame to complete the science pre-reqs for PA school while in the .mil - not too mention the contract length..It would pointless if your end goal is PA school. You can just knock out all the courses while volunteering/getting healthcare exposure, get accepted to PA school, and commission in the .mil as an officer w/ more pay

Also, the training is rigorous, and statistically, odds are against you. - not saying it can't be done, but it would be a rational choice not to do so, once in the .mil, you don't have much control as to what you'd want/like to do. 

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Prerecs can be done in the military under most conditions, I can vouch for that.  That said, as a PJ, SF...or most things in the realm "special"....it can be very difficult. Being in those types of units is work...not just the training...real no shit work.  Anything in the SOF world, support or operator, is very demanding.  You do much more with much less.  It's very rewarding, but it is not an easy life. 

 

AF IDMT or Navy IDC are great options, but you have to understand you have to do your basic medic/corpsman time first....at least 4 years in the AF.  

 

If you simply want some experience and serve some time (nothing wrong with that), any of branches basic medic training is a good lead into a medical career.

 

Good luck

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  • 1 month later...

Sounds too familiar, I too had the similar idea, I worked my ass off to be a J during undergrad and ended up injured and discharged after about a year.  I've now spent the last several years working as a Paramedic and taking classes to apply to PA schools in a traditional sense.  My advice would be to hone your focus.  If you want to be a PJ, you have to commit your life to it now.  It's not simply something you "go do".  If you want to be a PA, you have to commit to that as well.  I'm not saying that it can't be done, but doing TWO years of training alone to be a PJ then turning around to go into a PA program when you think you may have "free time" to take pre reqs seems unrealistic.  I'm not sure if you meant Guard or Active PJ but on active that that sounds like a tall task. 

 

My 2 cents, take it or leave it as someone who has been wrung through the system.  I'm even planning on going back into the Guard once in PA school.   PJ is a career option and you will only make it if you love it AND get lucky not to be hurt.  Being a Physician Assistant is ALSO a career option and if you are already planning for it now (you're 30, I'm 25) you may be better served to skip enlisting and perhaps go in as a medical officer if you need a way to pay for the tuition.  I know there are many options available!
 

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  • 1 month later...

There are many points of potential failure in your above listed plan.

For starters, the attrition rate for PJs hovers at 90%. You could potentially make it, but the odds aren't in your favor.

 

There are much easier direct routes to being a PA.

 

Here is a route you could take:

Graduate from AIT, serve with you unit, and take classes at you college or university. Use the Paris airport transfers and Tuition Assistance to pay for your classes.

You could then apply for a slot with IPAP - the Interservice Physician Assistant Program. Here, you would get a great PA education, a Masters and Bachelors degree, and it is all paid for (with a salary while you are in school).

 

Your service obligation after graduating IPAP would be 6 years of drilling in the Guard or Reserve.

 

This route gets you the "adventure" of being a flight medic and a PA education with zero debt.

thanks for the kind information that i am looking for . actually i also planed architect to PA but could not find any way to help me but after coming here i thought that there is a lot of hands , so i am very glad to come here. thanks again as it is informative

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

First very thank you for wanting to join the service, especially at your age... it isn't easy enlisting after the age of 25 or so. 

 

Now back to your post, I'll try to add a little insight on top of what everyone else has already stated.  I'm currently active duty AF working as an IDMT and submitting my PA app next year, so I have some idea of how that route works.  Like others have posted, you just don't become an IDMT you first have to be a basic AF Medic 4N0 and the fastest I have seen anyone become an IDMT after that is 2 years (usually with prior medical experience).  This is even more true with the Navy's IDC's, it can take several years to be finally accepted into the program... and there is no guarantee that you will pass IDMT/IDC school in the first place.  My suggestion to you if you want to be in PA school with the next 4 years do not go this route, because it will not happen.  I can't speak for the Navy side of the house, but don't even bother trying to be an IDMT on the guard / reserve side of the AF.  though there are empty slots many locations will not fill them.  

 

The little insight I do have on PJ's is this... they are operators, trained to pull people out, just because they hold an EMT-P does not make them ready to be doctors.   PJ's are great people and they do amazing things, but as others have said this is a complete lifestyle change you do not simply just become a PJ.  I know the whole special forces thing is appealing (we all get hooked on it, myself included) but we have to be real with ourselves.  I'll stop beating that dead horse, but if you really feel that you can pass PJ school do it... but you will not be a "doctor" you are an operator that does combat rescue... and the training does not transfer well to being a PA.

 

If you are serious and want to be a PA, I would suggest going guard / reserve navy / air force basic corpsman / medic training.  This will give you basic knowledge and help pay for some of those classes.  You should also look into the air force PA program as well and going in straight as an officer.  

 

This may not have helped, but I just want you to realize that enlisted will slow down everything for you.

 

If you do decide to enlist in the Air Force and have any questions concerning the medical field feel free to email me (zach.mckenty@gmail.com).  I have worked as an IDMT for several years now and as a basic medic before that.  I have worked both with PJ's and Aeroevac and in the standard medical group.  I'll be as straight with you as possible, one thing I hate are exaggerated descriptions and lying recruiters.

 

Best of luck!  

 

Z

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Wow...

Ok, I worked battalion recon as a corpsman many, many years ago. I've worked with EOD, 18D, PJs, IDMTs and many IDCs; good friends with a career rescue swimmer.

THESE ARE NOT STEPPING STONES, THEY ARE DEDICATED WAYS OF LIFE.

 

If you want to be a PA, go do the pre-reqs and be a PA. If you want to enlist, then do so. I applauded whichever path you choose, as this country needs plenty of both. But, these two goals do not mesh well. Honestly, you are looking at a lot of Hollywood type stuff and the people in many of the career fields you are looking at do not have a schedule steady enough to allow for regularly scheduled science classes.

 

THIS!   Becoming a professional is difficult.  Becoming an ultra-professional, such as SOC/SF (or any of the other long list of ultra-professional military operators) takes years and years of training and experience.  They are not meant to be stepping stones.

 

That being said, if you were 30, and you already had 10 years doing SOC/SF (or other military) experience, then I think it would be a great thing for you to be thinking about transitioning to PA.

 

I did 20 years active, with 17 years in operations.  I made the decision at the 10 year mark that I was going to retire and go to PA school (which is what I did).

 

....you will not be a "doctor" you are an operator that does combat rescue... and the training does not transfer well to being a PA.

 

I agree with everything you said....except for your opinion that the training does not transfer well to being a PA.  The critical decision making, absolute devotion to duty, and ability to get things done under horrible conditions that military operators have transfers very well to "being a PA", or anything else.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Wow...

Ok, I worked battalion recon as a corpsman many, many years ago. I've worked with EOD, 18D, PJs, IDMTs and many IDCs; good friends with a career rescue swimmer.

THESE ARE NOT STEPPING STONES, THEY ARE DEDICATED WAYS OF LIFE.

 

If you want to be a PA, go do the pre-reqs and be a PA. If you want to enlist, then do so. I applauded whichever path you choose, as this country needs plenty of both. But, these two goals do not mesh well. Honestly, you are looking at a lot of Hollywood type stuff and the people in many of the career fields you are looking at do not have a schedule steady enough to allow for regularly scheduled science classes.

 

Heck, the ACE credit recommendations for military training are no longer even entered into CASPA: it doesn't count for squat.

 

One minor pet peeve: those army folks with little green berets on their heads (including 18D) are special forces. Everyone else is special operations. The difference can equal a butt kicking in a bar (or a whole lot of pushups in training).

 

 

One does not select PJ as a stepping stone to IPAP/PA school.

 

It seems very silly to do so because you spend alot of time trying to be an advanced EMS who can swim and rescue people.   Finish up prereqs where ever you are and sign up for IPAP.

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  • 5 years later...

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