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Doing a residency worth it, especially for IM/FM?


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From the forum I gather that it doesnt do much to the career int he long run, be it preference over jobs or a higher salary. Because over time the PAs who dont do a residency gather enough experience and knowledge that theres nothing really to set them apart?

 

so what are the benefits for completing a residency, especially in the primary care field. 

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bigger question is WHAT residency. They are not accredited or well controlled currently. It is possible a new IM residency could basically be a scut work for minimal pay role. However, many IM residency programs are good including the one at Mayo clinic. If I could do it all over again I would have done a residency program. Makes sense. A good credential. A lot of learning/mentorship possibility. 

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From the forum I gather that it doesnt do much to the career int he long run, be it preference over jobs or a higher salary. Because over time the PAs who dont do a residency gather enough experience and knowledge that theres nothing really to set them apart?

 

so what are the benefits for completing a residency, especially in the primary care field. 

disagree. some folks will never catch up with residency grads because they will never be given the chance to do certain procedures or see certain types of pts. At many places it is a catch-22. to see high acuity or do X procedure you need to prove you have done it before...at least in em the residencnies are getting fairly standardized. there are 1-2 scut mills out there but folks know which ones they are and avoid them. most close after 1-2 years.

as far as IM/FP postgrad programs, I believe there are only 1-2 nationwide at this point, one in "primary care" at the VA and one in "hospital medicine" at mayo in AZ. there are lots for em(27) and > 20 in surgery/ct surgery.

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Residency is well worth it in my opinion.....but I am biased. I am finishing up a cardiology residency and I hear time and again from other PA's with plenty of experience how they wish they were given the well rounded training that I have received. I have had the opportunity to have rotations with general cardiology, electrophysiology, CT surgery, CV ICU, critical care cardiology. In addition I have had training in how to perform and interpret echos, cardiac CT, cardiac MRI's, put in central lines/SGC/a lines. Yes you can increase knowledge base with books and self discipline but I think exposure is a better way to learn and the amount of exposure you get in a residency is far more than you typically get in a regular job.   

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I think it depends.

 

In the context of getting hired, experience is really the only currency. A residency will always look good but do you really need it to get most IM/FP jobs? No. A residency will give you a much broader base of exposure and deeper skill set, though.

 

The question is does that translate to an actual broader scope of practice or just a deeper set of skills? I cant really answer that.

 

I know I would be a much more intrepid FP PA if I did a residency, but I'm not sure I would be making any more $$$ or be more employable than if I had just started working in FP right out of the gates.

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the great myth of the residency. waste of time and money. no way you will get me to believe that residency exposes one to more "experience" or more patients than if one was working the same job without the loss of pay and  increased hours. show me one study that proves a residency PA is a greater practicioner of medicine than a OTJ trained PA. residency does not hold water.

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the great myth of the residency. waste of time and money. no way you will get me to believe that residency exposes one to more "experience" or more patients than if one was working the same job without the loss of pay and  increased hours. show me one study that proves a residency PA is a greater practicioner of medicine than a OTJ trained PA. residency does not hold water.

one would not work "the same job" though as a new grad. what em job for a new grad allows you to rotate through trauma surgery, anesthesiology, ICU, Peds ER, infectious dz, ortho, u/s,  I.R.,  MAIN ER, etc with folks who want to teach you all the relevant procedures and give you access to the sickest of the sick pts. That job does not exist outside of a residency.

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anybody has a list of recognized fp/im residencies?

there are only 2 that I am aware of. the primary care one through the VA and the Mayo hospitalist one in AZ. Most pa residencies are in em, critical care, or surgical specialties.

see www.appap.org for links to most.

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there are only 2 that I am aware of. the primary care one through the VA and the Mayo hospitalist one in AZ. Most pa residencies are in em, critical care, or surgical specialties.

see www.appap.org for links to most.

so anything on those website are recognized residencies?

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disagree. some folks will never catch up with residency grads because they will never be given the chance to do certain procedures or see certain types of pts. At many places it is a catch-22. to see high acuity or do X procedure you need to prove you have done it before...at least in em the residencnies are getting fairly standardized. there are 1-2 scut mills out there but folks know which ones they are and avoid them. most close after 1-2 years.

as far as IM/FP postgrad programs, I believe there are only 1-2 nationwide at this point, one in "primary care" at the VA and one in "hospital medicine" at mayo in AZ. there are lots for em(27) and > 20 in surgery/ct surgery.

but then again its only an year worth of residency..how much can they learn in a year as compared to 3 years by MDs?

 

and whats the guarantee they will get to do the procedures or whatever after completing a residency??

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so anything on those website are recognized residencies?

 

I do want to add that other than the one or two residencies that are accredited, there is no such thing as a "recognized" residency for PAs yet. There is also a hold on any further accreditation. So, this means buyer beware and make sure you are actually getting trained, not just cheap labor. For example, the EM "residency" here in Florida screams the latter.

 

As for a FM/IM program, there's one here at UF with the VA. I'm not a FM kind of a guy, so I didn't give it much thought, but they did come in and present for the class. The current resident seems happy and is getting a lot of good experience. She has been bouncing through a number of services and is happy with what she is doing. Also, you will likely hear from them if you apply. Mr. B is a good guy, so I'd email him if you have any questions. As always, YMMV and batteries are not included. 

 

http://pap.med.ufl.edu/about-us-2/post-graduate-programs/

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but then again its only an year worth of residency..how much can they learn in a year as compared to 3 years by MDs?

 

and whats the guarantee they will get to do the procedures or whatever after completing a residency??

The internship yr in em includes all the critical off service rotations in trauma surg, icu, peds er, etc.

a residency grad can apply for the type of high end jobs at which these procedures are done and avoid any at which they are not allowed. residency grads at this point are the top 1% of desirable new employees, at least in em and surgery. ask any residency grad. there are many on this board. they will all confirm this.

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The internship yr in em includes all the critical off service rotations in trauma surg, icu, peds er, etc.

a residency grad can apply for the type of high end jobs at which these procedures are done and avoid any at which they are not allowed. residency grads at this point are the top 1% of desirable new employees, at least in em and surgery. ask any residency grad. there are many on this board. they will all confirm this.

Agree. In our CCU they generally don't take new grads and rarely anyone without prior critical care experience. The residency can offer this experience as well as give one the opportunity to get credentialed in SGC, central line, TVP, and A-line insertion before you get hired on after residency.

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the great myth of the residency. waste of time and money. no way you will get me to believe that residency exposes one to more "experience" or more patients than if one was working the same job without the loss of pay and  increased hours. show me one study that proves a residency PA is a greater practicioner of medicine than a OTJ trained PA. residency does not hold water.

 

Well, how can anyone persuade you of anything when you've already shared your own viewpoint right from the outset, and have done before on this topic?

 

No one on this board is saying a residency-trained PA is better than an OTJ PA.  What those of us who advocate residencies believe is that the option should be available for those who want the training for themselves.  But I don't think even with trying to share the experiences of myself and many other PA's who have not only done a residency but also work to help ensure a quality experience for future PA's who choose to do such a program would matter with you, as you'll shoot down any argument presented.

 

But that's okay.  Residency may not hold any water with you, but it sure does matter a lot to those who actually hire and employ PA's.   It's their opinion, as well as the PA's and physicians I work with daily and have worked with, that I actually care about.

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I would be interested in a hospital inpatient residency. Have always thought of crossing over. But at this point in my career, the loss of pay would be substantial. Still, I think residencies open doors for new grads and crossovers. Experience is the best teacher. And no I don't have any studies to back that up but there are no studies that show I love my children more than other kids either.

 

Sent from my S5 Active...Like you care...

 

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Well, how can anyone persuade you of anything when you've already shared your own viewpoint right from the outset, and have done before on this topic?

 

No one on this board is saying a residency-trained PA is better than an OTJ PA.  What those of us who advocate residencies believe is that the option should be available for those who want the training for themselves.  But I don't think even with trying to share the experiences of myself and many other PA's who have not only done a residency but also work to help ensure a quality experience for future PA's who choose to do such a program would matter with you, as you'll shoot down any argument presented.

 

But that's okay.  Residency may not hold any water with you, but it sure does matter a lot to those who actually hire and employ PA's.   It's their opinion, as well as the PA's and physicians I work with daily and have worked with, that I actually care about.

 

". . . it sure does matter a lot to those who actually hire and employ PA's.  It's their opinion, as well as the PA's and physicians I work with daily and have worked with, that I actually care about." 

 

Agree with you wholeheartedly TA.  We regularly get inquiries now regarding job opportunities for our EM Fellowship graduates (just last week from Harvard Medical System).   And our attending EPs uniformly give us feedback on how much more advanced and prepared our fellows are for the practice of emergency medicine after their year than other 'OJT' PAs and NPs were/are at the end of their first year.

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I'm doing a residency. 

 

In my opinion a residency is most useful in a specialty that has either a significant barrier to entry where a residency will help you get your foot in the door (like emergency medicine to avoid getting stuck in fast track land), or a specialty that is skill / procedure based such as critical care or surgery.

 

And, the most important things ive learned in residency so far has not been medical based. 

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