tollhouse Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 To get a job as a scribe, is the best route to get training with one of the large programs (Scribe America, Elite, etc) and get a position through them, or is it possible to get a job independently by applying directly to a hospital (after getting scribe certification from an on-line course)? Thanks for any insight you can give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKPAC Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 why do you want to be a scribe? I became a PA to practice medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 26, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 26, 2015 you realize scribe pay is very low AND many programs do not consider it to be quality experience, right? shoot for other options if you have a chance to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tollhouse Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 Based on some well-thought out comments on this board, the right scribe job is one good way to get health care hours. Both the programs I'm applying to recommend it. I'll have other patient contact hours, but I think the scribe position would give another perspective on the hospital environment. I don't understand the relevance of your comment. Of course PA's practice medicine. That's understood. But having a host of different experiences before attending PA school is always a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tollhouse Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 Yes. Frankliy I'm not in it for the money. But Drexel and several other programs specifically list scribe work as acceptable hours. And several on this board seem to have had amazingly good experiences with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dueling Cavalier Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I was a scribe. Some schools in the east coast count it as experience. It helped me out a lot actually (during rotations with all these different EMR systems), but you work like a slave and the pay is pure crap. Plus, they didn't pay us overtime. I was happy to quit as soon as I got my acceptance letter. But as a side note, I know a family medicine PA who does ER scribing as a side gig, but he gets paid $100 per hour. Sweet deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 26, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 26, 2015 Yes. Frankliy I'm not in it for the money. But Drexel and several other programs specifically list scribe work as acceptable hours. And several on this board seem to have had amazingly good experiences with it. "listing it" and considering it top tier experience are two very different things. Thtat's like "acceptable cars for daily driving" include Kias and Rolls Royces..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTtoPA Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I know a lot of schools will accept scribe as HCE, but if you have a chance I'd try to get involved in something that has more direct patient contact... actual hands on the patient. Even though you will be exposed to a lot of medical terminology, taking of H&p's, etc. as a scribe, it would be more beneficial for you to be in a position to be collaborating on decisions for the patient's plan of care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialMedicine Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 HCE Is important for two reasons. 1) acceptance to PA school. 2) preparation for PA school. scribe work does little to prepare you for PA school. You will interview a patient for the first time as aPA students which in my opinion means you have no health care experience. I am actually not one of those that feel all pre PAs need HCE. HCE does not mean familiarity with medical terminology. I can teach that to someone the summer before PA school with several easy to read books. However, certain programs (especially those with more hand holding and longer duration) are better for those with minimum HCE. When I review an application I basically consider scribe non experience even if it meets the standard for admission. Think about it ... wouldn't you do the same ? I am not discounting the hard work of scribe as a profession. It is good work. But not the best fit for a pre PA school study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaderSurgeon Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I am trying to get a scribe job but everyone I come up with wants a 2-year commitment. Are they just trying to make sure they only get serious applicants? I have the medical terminology course but I don't want them to think badly of me if I get into a PA program and have to leave the job to go to school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyM2 Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 When I review an application I basically consider scribe non experience even if it meets the standard for admission. 1.Think about it ... wouldn't you do the same ? I am not discounting the hard work of scribe as a profession. 2. It is good work. But not the best fit for a pre PA school study. 1. Answer: NO 2. One man's opinion. Sent from my KFAPWI using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiggySRNA Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 WOOPS...sorry for the double post...stupid computer lag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiggySRNA Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I am trying to get a scribe job but everyone I come up with wants a 2-year commitment. Are they just trying to make sure they only get serious applicants? I have the medical terminology course but I don't want them to think badly of me if I get into a PA program and have to leave the job to go to school. Scribe positions are usually hire-at-will. The only contract is word of mouth, which means, you can terminate your position whenever you feel necessary. You might burn a few bridges if you up and leave before 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 28, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 28, 2015 2. One man's opinion. Sent from my KFAPWI using Tapatalk at least 2. and both of us are on admissions committees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyM2 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 at least 2. and both of us are on admissions committees. Just so you know, I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.???? Sent from my KFAPWI using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted March 2, 2015 Moderator Share Posted March 2, 2015 Just so you know, I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night. Sent from my KFAPWI using Tapatalk and am not a pa OR on an admissions committee..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyM2 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 and am not a pa OR on an admissions committee.....and am not necessarily wrong either since this forum is rife with posts from former scribes who have a) been admitted to PA schools, b) done quite well in school and c) done very well in clinical practice after getting certified. There are even some anecdotal posts by former EMTS who went to PA school and then discovered they were not suited to that type of work. There are no universals, Sensei, and even generalities have a way of changing over time. Your humble grasshopper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted March 2, 2015 Moderator Share Posted March 2, 2015 if by "rife" you mean less than 10 folks fairly vocal folks vs the thousands who followed established routes to pa school. most of those folks also had other hce as well as scribe. even our most vocal scribe proponent on here also had some actual clinical time doing something else. my point is that potential students should seek to optimize their chances of getting into pa school, not hope to luck into an acceptance thrugh a pathway most working pas(who also make up adcoms) do not feel is valid. yes, a scribe can get into pa school and do well. the same individual would improve their chances of acceptance by getting traditional experience like medic, rn, rt. I woudn't presume to counsel folks how to get into an engineering program.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialMedicine Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 nobody is saying a scribe will be a bad PA. heck, I would not even say a PA student with no prior HCE will be bad. Just saying that scribe is not really interacting, examining, treating, decision making with patients. In some cases I have seen that it may include filling in history independent of a clinician but that is more regurgitation/filling in blanks then it is introduction to delivering patient care. I am sure you will do well if you decide to go the scribe route pre-PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted March 2, 2015 Moderator Share Posted March 2, 2015 agree with above. it is one route, it just is not the best route. actually touching patients and making clinical decisions is what we are looking for in pre-pa hce. scribe does neither. it is shadowing/mobile transcription. no one ever says the pt had a bad outcome because of a scribe, because scribes have no responsibility for any aspect of clinical care. they are there to allow clinicians to work more efficiently. they watch other people work and write about it. how does a scribe even know if they like health care? they have never done a procedure, been vomited on, had to tell someone their grandmother died, independently come up with a workup and followed it to conclusion, made a significant clinical error and had to deal with the fallout, been yelled at by other folks for stuff they have or may not have gotten wrong (medicine requires a thick skin...), etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyM2 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 nobody is saying a scribe will be a bad PA. heck, I would not even say a PA student with no prior HCE will be bad. Just saying that scribe is not really interacting, examining, treating, decision making with patients. In some cases I have seen that it may include filling in history independent of a clinician but that is more regurgitation/filling in blanks then it is introduction to delivering patient care. I am sure you will do well if you decide to go the scribe route pre-PA. OK, so now I'm confused. Is it that scribes won't make good PAs (or won't be as good as EMTs, etc) or is it that scribes, without other HCE, have a lesser chance of getting an acceptance? If the former is false (ie scribes can become PAs as good as any other), then why would the latter be true? Also, why are there schools that accept so called "lower forms of hce" such as scribe, lab tech or none at all? Are they turning out lower quality PAs? Is there any evidence that "non-traditional " forms of HCE produces less qualified PAs? Where is that evidence? (Not anecdotal stories.) Isn't it possible that the world is changing as the PA profession matures? I have never advocated that scribe is the "best" form of HCE. I doubt there is a best form. I freely admit they there are programs that have decided to only accept certain forms of HCE. They post it on their web sites. That it no different from setting standards for GREs, GPA, pre-reqs, volunteer hours, etc. Parse it any way you wish but establishing standards is a way of limiting the applicant pool for any given school. Otherwise, why do we hear from experienced PAs that they were accepted with a 3.1 GPA? Or do these PA-Cs actually feel sub-standard. Many of the posts from pre-PAs asking about Scribe experience don't want to have to get certified as an EMT or have said they can't find an EMT job. I know some of you feel that PAs should have a prior career as an EMT, nurse, etc. But, increasingly, we are seeing PA as a first career, generally with a year or two of prior HCE. As I have said before, the ranks of PA would remain small without a change in acceptance standards. There just aren't enough EMTs around to fill the schools, and I would postulate that the schools have found that, as long as they maintain academic standards, their non-traditional PA graduates do very well in clinical practice. If that were not true, those schools would be doing something highly unethical. For those of you on adcoms with the prejudice against Scribes, enjoy your sense of superiority. I am willing to bet that, as time passes, the definition of "traditional" HCE will change. That may be a good thing since the profession needs more advocates and most of those advocates come from within the ranks. Sent from my KFAPWI using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db_pavnp Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I wish I could find the numbers again, but there was that semi-recent survey of first year PA students regarding their previous HCE. Over 50% had CNA experience, if I recall, 10% phlebotomy, and so on. RNs, RTs, and medics are clearly at the top of the heap for applying to programs due to the quality of their HCE, but here's the catch - there obviously aren't enough high GPA, high HCE individuals to fill the slots if over 50% of the positions are going to CNAs. This is why scribes will always have a reasonable shot at getting into programs and this is why any scribe+CNA can probably be VERY confident in their background - they are competing against individuals with only one or the other. While RNs, RTs, and medics will permanently be top-dogs applying to programs, it makes no sense to suggest any college student acquire one of those certs when a scribe+CNA has an HCE advantage vs greater than 60% of first year students. Individual adcom members of individual programs can have all the prejudices they want against the average applicant. Most seats of most programs will be filled by CNAs with bio majors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyM2 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I wish I could find the numbers again, but there was that semi-recent survey of first year PA students regarding their previous HCE. Over 50% had CNA experience, if I recall, 10% phlebotomy, and so on. RNs, RTs, and medics are clearly at the top of the heap for applying to programs due to the quality of their HCE, but here's the catch - there obviously aren't enough high GPA, high HCE individuals to fill the slots if over 50% of the positions are going to CNAs. This is why scribes will always have a reasonable shot at getting into programs and this is why any scribe+CNA can probably be VERY confident in their background - they are competing against individuals with only one or the other. While RNs, RTs, and medics will permanently be top-dogs applying to programs, it makes no sense to suggest any college student acquire one of those certs when a scribe+CNA has an HCE advantage vs greater than 60% of first year students. Individual adcom members of individual programs can have all the prejudices they want against the average applicant. Most seats of most programs will be filled by CNAs with bio majors. Interesting perspective. Sent from my KFAPWI using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted March 2, 2015 Moderator Share Posted March 2, 2015 both true and very sad. this is one reason many of us are going into education. that trend needs to be reversed....I may lose this fight, but will remain steadfast in my opposition to low level hce for the bare min # of hrs... The late RC Davis (search his posts if you don't know who I mean) felt the same way. I hope to honor his memory by continuing his fight. he taught me so much and we never even met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialMedicine Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 i would like to see a trend where certain programs demonstrate themselves as preferred for those with low HCE. Some have already done this. For example, it would be a 2.5-3 year program with extra clinical exposure. The entire experience would be a good fit for someone without involved and substantial HCE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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