PACdan Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Money is definitely a concern among my classmates. And it correlates pretty well with the ever increasing cost of PA schooling and subsequent loan amounts. Doctors jumped ship for the better reimbursed specialties in lieu of primary care. PAs come in to fill the FM/PC role, and now the cost of school/lure of $$$ is pushing them down the same route. Primary care needs better incentivizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 16, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 16, 2015 Primary care needs better incentivizing. agree. there are loan repayment programs out there in primary care, especially in rural and underserved areas. The pa I mentioned above with the bmw actually just cut down to part time with us so she could go work a rural family medicine job, which offers loan repayment of 30k/yr on top of a reasonable base salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 that PA also pays 2 mortgages and has > 200k student loans from undergrad and pa school. she is single without kids too....she has to make 65-70/hr + and work overtime just to keep her head above water. I can take less money at one of my per rural diem jobs because I like working there and always learn something every shift it's all about priorities. If I was single I could live off less than 1/2 of my current income, probably 1/3. LOL yeah I see why she is stressed. I have no student loan debt and no mortgages. So I'm just chillin and saving right now. 8) But, yeah, you definitely don't need that much money to live and enjoy life when you're single. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Money is definitely a concern among my classmates. And it correlates pretty well with the ever increasing cost of PA schooling and subsequent loan amounts. Doctors jumped ship for the better reimbursed specialties in lieu of primary care. PAs come in to fill the FM/PC role, and now the cost of school/lure of $$$ is pushing them down the same route. Primary care needs better incentivizing. Based on my research, primary care is on the way up. In 2016, reimbursements will begin focusing on outcome, as opposed to how many things you can order. Primary care providers tend to be very knowledgeable in HEDUS metrics. So I think that, long-term, PCMs will have increasing reimbursement and specialists will have decreasing reimbursement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 16, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 16, 2015 PCMs will have increasing reimbursement and specialists will have decreasing reimbursement. this is how things are in England. primary care docs are on top of the heap there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrsmurf Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 To specifically answer OP's question 1) Work in a rural area (increased pay due to demand, low cost of living) 2) Work in a field that does a lot of procedures and get a contract that reimburses you by procedures done/patients seen 3) Don't have kids 4) Don't have kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted February 17, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 17, 2015 I too have an MBA I too realized the business world is not for me I love medicine, I love working with patients, I love my job Has it been a struggle at times to find my way - heck yes - has $$ played a role, heck yes I would agree with other posters there is nothing wrong with earning a living, but medicine is and can be so much more. I am responsible for my patients, I know them, I like (most) of them. I have bounced jobs, and tried specialty practice (partly for the $$) but realized I am an IM guy at heart. I could earn more, but choose to earn enough and as others have said, live simply (or at least well below my means) and it is fine. I do however stand by my initial post, if you are just looking to maximize income you should not enter medicine. If you want nothing else then to enter medicine, and second to this, want to maximize your income - well then figure out what field you want to be in, try to get a residency, give up a few years to OJT after this, and then market yourself and don't take a poor paying position. But remember there is more to compensation then the take home pay. I would not go after a certain field, but instead figure out what field fits you and gets you excited, then you can excel with in that field and the income will be there (as long as you are not stuck in one of the few crazy high cost of living places, ie NYC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFarnsworth Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 To the OP:Sorry, I skipped a lot of posts but my answer is CV surgery. You can make 200K+ once you are experienced. Also, locums or travel assignments tend to be more lucrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electric130 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Lots of good advice in above posts. I have found the highest paying specialties usually involve procedures/surgery. If you end up really enjoying that then that may be your ticket. I did a short time in Interventional Radiology doing procedures, this was 8 years ago and I was making 90k a year and they offered 18% of salary as profit sharing into a retirement plan. I am sure those PAs with experience in that group are making at least 150k now. They are all very good at what they do and genuinely care about their patients. I really have never seen a group that treated their PA's with such respect and compensated them fairly considering the skill and risks involved. I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to maximize your income potential. As long as you care about your patients and practice in an ethical way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 CV surg or neurosurg are the big money makers (forget any QOL) for PAs. After that would be any job (EM/UC/acute care) with RVU bonuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 You could become an insurance executive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSUnoles Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 yea i think people often misconstrue medicine as a gold mind field where you can make gobs of money. No, you make a lot of money with a lot of work (if done honestly) Some decide to skirt that and this is where unethical things come into play as others have stated (selling miracle drugs, getting into cosmetics as a PCP instead of providing access to care) or over billing (see the medicare numbers where people were testing everyone that walked in It's also interesting that its a field where no matter how good you are you cant dictate how much you are paid. A horrible surgeon gets paid the same amount for a hysterectomy as a highly skilled surgeon. Transfer that to something like law where some lawyers can charge thousands an hour. I guess the only exception to this rule is Plastic Surgeons but thats another debate into the reward of helping Long story short you go into medicine because its rewarding and you can make a good living. You want to maximize your income? just be smart with your money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetNavyPAC Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I'm still not convinced this isn't trolling. It is unclear exactly how much the OP knows /understands about what it is to be a PA and practice medicine (probably little it is safe to assume), but is already looking for what specialty is going to satisfy his "financial ambitions" - but supposedly is looking for a "fulfilling career where [he] helps people in [his] 'day to day." This is schizophrenic. It's unambiguous that his main motivation is money - all other professing to the contrary because they're so internally contradictory. His post "isn't one about using medicine and people for financial gain." But it's pretty clear that that is exactly his misguided modus operandi. He wants "to be the best PA [he] can be" and for him that is "excelling both clinically and financially". But I can't be the only one to glean that his self-worth is inextricably wrapped up in what his compensation will be. So, yes - in his case I think they are mutually exclusive. I shudder to think about his clinical acumen and caring if his main scorecard is his paycheck. I wonder if this is more and more the kind of personality/attitude that the profession is going to attract if we keep showing up on Forbes & USN&WR lists of 'Best Jobs' He hasn't even applied for PA school yet but sounds like he wants to start at the top making TWICE the average salary - and own the practice. "Money has to be considered in any profession and all I'm saying is in my area 90-100k would be tough to raise a family." Move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PArfect Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 I'm still not convinced this isn't trolling. It is unclear exactly how much the OP knows /understands about what it is to be a PA and practice medicine (probably little it is safe to assume), but is already looking for what specialty is going to satisfy his "financial ambitions" - but supposedly is looking for a "fulfilling career where [he] helps people in [his] 'day to day." This is schizophrenic. It's unambiguous that his main motivation is money - all other professing to the contrary because they're so internally contradictory. His post "isn't one about using medicine and people for financial gain." But it's pretty clear that that is exactly his misguided modus operandi. He wants "to be the best PA [he] can be" and for him that is "excelling both clinically and financially". But I can't be the only one to glean that his self-worth is inextricably wrapped up in what his compensation will be. So, yes - in his case I think they are mutually exclusive. I shudder to think about his clinical acumen and caring if his main scorecard is his paycheck. I wonder if this is more and more the kind of personality/attitude that the profession is going to attract if we keep showing up on Forbes & USN&WR lists of 'Best Jobs' He hasn't even applied for PA school yet but sounds like he wants to start at the top making TWICE the average salary - and own the practice. "Money has to be considered in any profession and all I'm saying is in my area 90-100k would be tough to raise a family." Move. A lot of hurtful accusations in this post that directly attack my character. I won't let myself get worked up over this, but I do suggest being less cynical in your interpretations in the future. It's not a very welcoming look. Nothing I said was a troll post, nor do you know me enough to make the claims you are making. Many people in this thread were helpful, and then there is your post. Perhaps glance through the other posts in this thread and notice the anamolous tone of your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilovelost Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 "What is the best path to take to make as much money as possible as a PA?" When you go for your PA program interviews, you should lead the conversation with this question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db_pavnp Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Lemme go out on a limb here and suggest that many professionals within their individual professions would find the question distasteful. Questions about relative performance in a given state or city or between specialties are a bit more palatable as it suggests you've done some research rather than going right for the throat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetNavyPAC Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 A lot of hurtful accusations in this post that directly attack my character. I won't let myself get worked up over this, but I do suggest being less cynical in your interpretations in the future. It's not a very welcoming look. Nothing I said was a troll post, nor do you know me enough to make the claims you are making. Many people in this thread were helpful, and then there is your post. Perhaps glance through the other posts in this thread and notice the anamolous tone of your post. Sorry your knickers got all knotted up in a warm, moist ball PArfect. I suppose I could have been less vehement. But maybe your post just caught me after a few straight nights in a busy Level I ED, busting my hump, taking good care of a lot of people, more than a few of whom were unappreciative or rude or entitled and demanding, but I still did it with a smile (and hopefully some grace) because I love THE JOB. I've been in medicine for over thirty years and a PA for just shy of twenty. I've seen 'em come, and I've seen 'em go - and I guarantee you there are a LOT of clinicians out there who are orders of magnitude more cynical than I. Anyway . . . . I respectfully suggest you go back and read your original post again. Try to keep as objective an eye as you can and see if what you wrote, and how it sounded, could be interpreted any other way than from someone who is primarily interested in the money they make as a PA. It's just one of my 'buttons'. I have always had very little patience for anyone who does anything (let alone the privilege of taking care of the sick and injured) primarily for the money, usually because they suck at it (no passion) and they are usually not only miserable, but make the job insufferable for those who work with them. "I am a financially ambitious individual and I would be looking to max out my income potential as a PA. I want to at least double the average PA salary if possible. What would be the best speciality/way to do this?" Was it just me? Those sentences seem pretty clear. The average national PA salary in 2013 was $107,268. You haven't even applied for PA school, sat in the first day of class nor checked in with your preceptor the first day of your first rotation, but your eye is firmly fixed on pulling down $214,000 minimum. It seemed to me - and I'll wager some others (see the two posts previous to this one) - that your overarching concern was what you were eventually going to make. Money certainly is important, but you're never going to starve as a PA - or putting your supply chain and marketing graduate degree to good use. If I completely and utterly misinterpreted your post, and money is not your primary motivator, then you have my apologies, and I'm sure time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 OP, here are two anecdotal stories for you that I have from PA school. One was a preceptor of mine. The other was a teacher. The preceptor was in his late 30s at the time and, for all intents and purposes, was retired. He had a wife and kids. Basically, he broke his ass for a few years and worked two full time jobs and one per diem job (yes, you read that right) and brought in around 300k per year. He and his family also lived on a shoestring budget, but they seemed very happy. His full time jobs were as a neurosurgery and forensics PA. I don't remember what his per diem job was. Conversely, I had an administrator at my school that owned a house in the Hamptons (I went there and it's a mansion) and a luxury car. His kids were in private school. He was a full time orthopedic PA and either part time or per diem surgical PA. I don't know how much he made, but it seemed like a lot. **DISCLAIMER: For all I know he bought all of that stuff on credit. My point is that it's DEFINITELY possible to make a very good living as a PA. However, you will have to work for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted March 3, 2015 Moderator Share Posted March 3, 2015 yup. you have to decide the value of the time away from the rest of your life. I didn't place much value on that time until fairly recently so often worked 180-240 hrs/mo for months on end. recently I have decided that there are a lot of things I can do without to not work so much and now I actually enjoy my time at work more since I have cut way down to full time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oval_97 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 As someone else said, move. I don't think you even had to tell us you're an MBA, your post and posting style pretty much scream east coast finance bro. You said you want to stay in the area you grew up? CT, NJ, Long Island? I'm guessing one of those NYC suburbs. Yeah, they're expensive to live in. Just move. Plenty of other places to live where your salary will go a lot farther. I guess I don't get it because I don't really feel the need to keep up with the Joneses; I just want a nice, comfortable life. I am surprised that you're an MBA and have to ask the question though. Also surprised that the other MBA guy's classmates seemed to think there's a ceiling on what a PA can make. Just like with nearly any profession the answer is to go out on your own. I'm not sure how PA autonomy varies from state to state, but start your own practice or buy one with a doctor if as a PA you're not allowed to own one. Hire an onsite doctor to supervise if you need one there all the time, or pay one a consulting fee to do periodic QOS inspections as required by law. Profit! Otherwise, use your MBA skills to make an iPhone app that's essential to PA/Medical life, create some new contraption that'll make everyone's life easier, etc. There are lots of roads to unlimited upside potential if you're looking for them and have the drive and committment. Or just be a PA and be content with making a decent salary and practicing medicine. That's my plan at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itrilazio Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 The quick answer is production based dermatology or urgent care. But more derm. I worked in Alaska for a year and made 190 for internal medicine. I am applying for a lead pa position for a mountaineering group, and the salary is 150. Sales is a good route too, I guess... Salaries range greatly. It is a new profession, and in some ways still finding its feet. We have many niches to fill, and their is money to go around believe it or not. Also don't be upset, money is awesome. But know this... We are a proud profession and an important one. Taking care of patients is a privilege, not a joke. Education and taking care of patients should come first. Money second. I hope you find your answers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 This is a year old post, but I certainly wouldn't work for 190 or 150 dollars . That barely pays for two weeks of groceries and gas. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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