Donald66 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Our son's high school advisor suggested that he apply to direct entry PA programs without a backup major. The advisor's reasoning is that the schools will stick him in his 2nd option and only look at him for the PA if they don't get better applicants. Does this make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiggySRNA Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Either way, if he isn't selected for the combined BS/MS PA Program, he will be forced into "Liberal Arts/Undecided" if he doesn't choose a second possible degree. Have your son choose another major of interest as a second option. He can always re-apply to another BS/MS joint program. If he wants to play it safe, bring up the option of pursuing a BSN as his "second option". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted January 30, 2015 Administrator Share Posted January 30, 2015 Better yet, let him know that he will be a far better PA if he actually manages to get both appropriate college with good grades AND good HCE first, and the order of those two things doesn't even matter. High school counselors advising direct entry PA programs for high school students are, in my opinion, committing educational advising misconduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted January 31, 2015 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2015 Better yet, let him know that he will be a far better PA if he actually manages to get both appropriate college with good grades AND good HCE first, and the order of those two things doesn't even matter. High school counselors advising direct entry PA programs for high school students are, in my opinion, committing educational advising misconduct. couldn't agree more. PA should not even be mentioned as an option for high school because it should not be viewed as an entry level profession! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald66 Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 We mentioned nursing to him, but he has PA on the brain. He said that his back up major would be chemistry. He then would apply to a graduate PA program. Somehow he got hooked on PA. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted January 31, 2015 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2015 We mentioned nursing to him, but he has PA on the brain. He said that his back up major would be chemistry. He then would apply to a graduate PA program. Somehow he got hooked on PA. any reason he doesn't want to go to medical school? There are a lot of significant differences in lifestyle and job satisfaction down the line based on which choice he makes... the more traditional route to PA is not college to PA, it is high level health care experience(paramedic/nurse/resp. therapy, etc) beck to college for a few prereqs, then PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald66 Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 We've had discussions about why not become a doctor instead of a PA. He keeps coming back too..."I don't want to stay in school for years". He can write scrips as a PA, so why become a doctor?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 He's young and doesn't have the insight into the profession. Being a PA is a whole lot more than writing prescriptions. What type of personality does he have? Is he one who would be ok with not being the boss and have final authority on how things are done? If so, PA for him. If not, go to med school. Of course, as PA practice laws are changing he might just get to be the boss of himself by the time he graduates PA school if state PA laws are successful in abolishing the dependent nature of the profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 ^^^^badly worded sentence but you get my gist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 We've had discussions about why not become a doctor instead of a PA. He keeps coming back too..."I don't want to stay in school for years". He can write scrips as a PA, so why become a doctor?!?!Great logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quarternote Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Has he done any job shadowing? The VA is a good place to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald66 Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 He volunteers at a local medical center 3 hours a week and has been talking to PA's & nurses. Based on his observations, the PAs "have it made". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald66 Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 My wife and I believe nursing would be a better option. Any idea how we can get him to see the light on his own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald66 Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 My wife thinks we should tell him we can only afford X for college. That X amount would be only enough for nursing school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MICURN Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Nursing is a great option to enter the healthcare field. As an RN with a BSN he would have the option to go to medical school, PA, NP, CRNA or any other route he would want. No other bachelor's degree offers all those options. Being an RN is great experience and will give him insight into the professions available to him. Plus, he can work shifts as an RN during school to make extra money (should he choose to do so). Or, if he doesn't happen to be accepted the first time he applies, he has a fall back plan to work until he applies again. One more thing, being a male in nursing sort of puts you ahead of the pack... I got a large scholarship for my BSN simply for being male, and the admissions committees are always looking to add more males to their cohorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loliz Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Kids have to become adults and be allowed to make mistakes. If you are planning on paying for school, let him know that you pay for ONE degree. If he is stuck with a pre-pa degree and decides he wants to be a lawyer, the rest is on him. In my opinion any "pre" degree is a mistake because the opportunities are so narrowed. Getting a degree in biology will cover his pre-reqs and allow for pretty much any masters degree that he decides on. Nursing is a great opportunity for jobs, but if he is driven to go further, he will still be short on a LOT of pre-reqs for PA or medical school. Having the goal of PA is not a mistake and is very doable, but the pathway to get there is varied and a direct admit from high school seems like a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LT_Oneal_PAC Posted January 31, 2015 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2015 Kids have to become adults and be allowed to make mistakes. If you are planning on paying for school, let him know that you pay for ONE degree. If he is stuck with a pre-pa degree and decides he wants to be a lawyer, the rest is on him. In my opinion any "pre" degree is a mistake because the opportunities are so narrowed. Getting a degree in biology will cover his pre-reqs and allow for pretty much any masters degree that he decides on. Nursing is a great opportunity for jobs, but if he is driven to go further, he will still be short on a LOT of pre-reqs for PA or medical school. Having the goal of PA is not a mistake and is very doable, but the pathway to get there is varied and a direct admit from high school seems like a mess. He'll only be short 2 classes to meet the requirements for several dozen PA schools. LTJG "O'neal" PA-C, RN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MICURN Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Kids have to become adults and be allowed to make mistakes. If you are planning on paying for school, let him know that you pay for ONE degree. If he is stuck with a pre-pa degree and decides he wants to be a lawyer, the rest is on him. In my opinion any "pre" degree is a mistake because the opportunities are so narrowed. Getting a degree in biology will cover his pre-reqs and allow for pretty much any masters degree that he decides on. Nursing is a great opportunity for jobs, but if he is driven to go further, he will still be short on a LOT of pre-reqs for PA or medical school. Having the goal of PA is not a mistake and is very doable, but the pathway to get there is varied and a direct admit from high school seems like a mess. I agree with your first point. I have a friend who went to a 3+3 PT program. She dislikes being a PT but she doesn't have a true bachelor's degree so she's essentially stuck. Your point about PA school/med school reqs not being fulfilled by a BSN is confusing to me. I got my first bachelor's degree in biology and then an accelerated BSN so I can't say I personally did this, but many students in BSN programs fill their electives with the classes they need for those grad programs (PA, Med school, Pharm, etc) that aren't already included in their undergrad programs required curriculum. Essentially, don't go to a PA program right out of highschool. Get a bachelor's degree (RT and RN are great ways to go, just saying) work for a couple years and then go to the graduate program of your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febrifuge Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Our son's high school advisor suggested that he apply to direct entry PA programs without a backup major. The advisor's reasoning is that the schools will stick him in his 2nd option and only look at him for the PA if they don't get better applicants. Does this make sense? Not really. I'm not really sure I follow the counselor's logic here, and if I do, I don't agree with it. I really don't feel that strategic decisions, aimed at trying to influence the chances of acceptance to a program, are really the best way to go for anyone, ever. It's far better to be able to articulate one's own goals for school and/or career, and then go about pursuing those goals in the way that makes the most sense for that person. It's the difference between getting 2 to 3 years of experience as an ER Tech, like I did, because I wanted to use that time to really be sure I wanted to change careers in my 30s, and someone who puts in exactly (n) number of hours volunteering or shadowing or doing something easy because they think it will make their application look better. The hypothetical second kid is still at risk of getting into PA school and learning somewhere in the clinical phase that they don't actually like treating sick people. This isn't even touching on the issue of deciding on PA school while one is in high school; there is a lot of good discussion about that above. It's not completely unthinkable, but I do believe an applicant needs to have a rock-solid and convincing reason why that is their plan, and they need to be able to articulate that reason extremely well, in very few words. Anyone who can't do that (and by the way, this applies to MD school as well as PA school, not to mention engineering, economics, psych, or any major under the sun) really isn't ready, in my estimation. Especially in the case of PA vs MD, either way you go, there will come some point when you're feeling exhausted and overwhelmed by your program of study, and you'll be wondering why you didn't go the other way. It's just a fact, and a rite of passage. If you don't have an answer for that, you're going to have a bad time, and that's the worst possible time to discover you don't have the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted January 31, 2015 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2015 Feb- you are the man. very eloquent and well thought out. You and GeoBrothers always impress me with your well thought out responses here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febrifuge Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Thanks, man. I've been off for a couple of weeks, so there's a danger of posting stuff in older threads that might not add a lot. I hope this helps the OP get things organized for his future-maybe-PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CByersPAC Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Wow, lots of good comments already. I can only add that coming out of high school is a time to maximize one's future options, in my opinion. Straight into a direct entry PA program will make choosing another path harder in the future, and when I was exiting high school I was certainly not ready to make a solid career decision. Making a life decision based on "only going to school for two years," for a teen/young adult, is in my opinion a false economy. Options. He will never wish he had fewer of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialMedicine Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Donald ... nursing is very different than PA. PA's practice medicine like physicians. Many PAs in internal medicine will see a large panel of patients independent of physician guidance (although it will certainly be available if needed). PAs will order interventions that nurses follow. If someone wants to practice medicine let them pick the career they find interesting as opposed to pushing them into nursing. If you kid wants to be a PA he should go to college ... study something which interests him (maybe that is nursing). While in college he should obtain health care experience that is legit such as EMT or Nurse. Then apply to PA school ... if he obtains legitimate health care experience he can start PA school immediately following undergrad. PA is a graduate level education (masters degree). Direct to entry programs are fine when someone is absolutely certain they want to work in that profession. And from what I understand it is not a guarantee... you need to maintain high grades undergrad and some drop out of the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjwasco Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I understand that choosing your career right out of high school is difficult and often kids are wrong, but why do you think choosing PA is more risky than any other career choice ? Students go to school for engineering, business, biology, followed by masters programs or law, medical school before they have any work experience and the vast majority are successful. Yes there are those that change careers after graduation, but they are in the minority. In today’s education system you really have to have a career choice very early. Many universities will only accept students into high demand fields as freshmen and only if they meet the GPA entry requirements. Once shut out students can't reapply. I’m overjoyed my kids knew what they wanted to do when they graduated from high school. It made choosing the right college and degree much easier. The system is moving community colleges to job training centers so students can immediately join the workforce as trained employees. Remember a couple years ago when high school students went to vocational school then directly to work ? Today’s business wants knowledgeable people right out of school, they don’t want to spend money teaching fundamentals. A university student that graduates without an employable degree has a difficult time finding a job. The reason the advisor said to apply direct admit to PA is because freshmen are only accepted to the program as new applicants. Once your are a student at the university or a transfer student you can not apply. It is more advantageous to be directly admitted to the program, and transfer universities/majors if you don't like the major than be admitted as a graduate with an undergrad degree you don’t care for and then go through the whole GRE,HCE, application... process. Shadow, volunteer, scribe whatever it takes freshman and sophomore years to make sure you want to be a PA. Can you make a career mistake choosing a 5 year program, sure. Can you make a career mistake by choosing the traditional route, sure. Freshmen accepted to these programs typically have GPAs exceeding 4.0, so they are disciplined and directed even before they apply. I'll bet more people forego becoming a PA because by the time they can go back for the degree they are burned out of school, didn’t have a good enough GPA or they are getting their personal lives in order and don't want the disruption of school and the concept of applying with hundreds of other people for 30 openings is depressing. If anyone can find stats on 5 year vs. traditional and the retentivity of the PA it would be interesting. Many schools that post retentivity through their 5 year program site a loss rate of less than 10%, and the majority of those are the freshman year, before the PA specific courses. PANCE rates are as good as or better in many cases than the traditional routes. I’m sure people will disagree, but I think there is much less risk in applying directly than going the traditional route. No matter what route you have to get a degree, and who is to say that undergrad you got just to apply to PA will be one that you hate and perform poorly in, and it disqualifies you ? Everyone makes it sound like once you graduate, get HCE and apply it is a sure thing. There are sometimes 300+ applicants for 30 positions. The risk of not having the highest GPA after your undergrad and not being accepted is high also, and shouldn’t be overlooked. I also see threads of people who became PAs via the traditional route and now regret it, so there is no guarantee that way either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHU-CH Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 In some respects, being on a dual-degree track might help keep some doors open. If there is a possibility your son might want to go to PA school someday, try to get into a dual degree track. Competition to get into PA school is brutal and we routinely have to turn away applicants with pre-req and cum GPAs of 3.8+. He can always switch majors and transfer out of a dual degree track, but he will never be able to transfer in. See what degree the dual degree track offers. Ours is a straight bio degree. Students occasionally leave the PA track to finish out their undergrad degree to go to medical, dental, vet or nursing school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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