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The tradeoff: GPA vs. HCE


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    I get the impression from looking around that, as the PA profession came from those already in the healthcare field, HCE was of a high value.  However, there have been many posts about the decreasing requirement for HCE and the higher applicant average for GPA.  While lots of programs, and the PAEA annual report, will list the average GPA and average HCE from the accepted applicant pools, has anyone looked at the direct correlation of the two?

 

    What I mean is, what is the trade off between HCE and GPA?  Is 2000 hours of high quality HCE worth two-tenths (0.2) of a GPA when it comes to interview invites?  What about 5 years of high quality HCE: what would the GPA threshold be for an interview invite?  This is of course assuming that the minimums are met and I'm only talking about quality hands on HCE.  Volunteering as a candy striper is great experience, but I'm talking more about the RN, paramedic, military medic/ Corpsman roles. 

 

    I have looked at 187 PA schools and have pared my list down to less than 20.  It has amazed me how many have a low to no (500 hours or less) HCE requirement while having average cGPAs from matriculates be above 3.50. 

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Since each program is different, I don't think you can break it down to an exact equivalence. If someone has a years worth of high quality experience (RN, paramedic, etc), I think it would make them very competitive, but if their GPA is less than 3.0, most programs won't consider the application. Otherwise, it might depend on who else is applying too. If your experiences differentiate you from most applicants, and your GPA is like 3.1, they might be more inclined to accept you because of your advanced experience. If you get an interview, you'll also have more to talk about. It seems like different programs value different factors. Apply to older programs that really emphasize quality HCE.

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Yep, each program is different.

 

I believe you should have a good mix of the two extremes in a program. Some that are young and inexperienced, but with the book smarts, the drive, and motivation. Some that are more mature, experienced, and bring a lot of wisdom and real life experience to the table.

 

When you interview at schools you will see the programs that have a good mix of the two. Most of those programs have been around for a while. It's an imperfect science picking the right candidates. I think you will find many on here who will tell you one type of candidate is better than another, but I have seen both types above mentioned succeed. It comes down to the motivation and love of Medicine. The best candidates are those that want to be excellent in every aspect of their career. You can be a lazy medic/RN. You can be a lazy student who can ace every test, hold a 4.0 in med school and then become a crappy doctor because there is no passion for their job. Those in PA programs that succeed are those with a desire to be continually improving their skills and for the best outcomes for the patients.

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EMEDPA, I apologize but perhaps I wasn't entirely clear.  I've pared down my list to 20 programs I like based on: my meeting the prereqs, HCE desirability, veterans preference, 5 year PANCE pass rate, attrition levels, cost and those states that give in state residency to veterans.  It's a list somewhat personalized to my particular needs and desires as a potential candidate.

 

Some of the programs I've ruled out are for competitiveness reasons.  For example, LSU Shreveport was the most inexpensive one on my list, but I would be competing for one of 4 out of state seats instead of 1 of 40 for in state.  One program wanted three semesters of A&P, which I wasn't willing to due in lieu of another course like genetics that more programs prefer.

 

What I was discussing in my initial post was that I've looked at 187 programs and was amazed on the low amount of HCE required at many of them.  That being said, I'm willing to share my list to who wants it with the caveat that it's highly personalized and fairly useless unless you are like me.

 

That being said, if anyone has a cGPA and sGPA over 3.0, a GRE over 305, exceeds the minimum HCE everywhere (I'm at about 20,000+ so I was able to disregard minimums), are a veteran using the GI Bill, will not have their Bachelor's at the time of application and will only have 4 credits of general biology, but will have orgo, biochem, psych, and genetics it may be of use.  It's a fairly narrow group of candidates, to be sure.

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    I get the impression from looking around that, as the PA profession came from those already in the healthcare field, HCE was of a high value.  However, there have been many posts about the decreasing requirement for HCE and the higher applicant average for GPA.  While lots of programs, and the PAEA annual report, will list the average GPA and average HCE from the accepted applicant pools, has anyone looked at the direct correlation of the two?

 

    What I mean is, what is the trade off between HCE and GPA?  Is 2000 hours of high quality HCE worth two-tenths (0.2) of a GPA when it comes to interview invites?  What about 5 years of high quality HCE: what would the GPA threshold be for an interview invite?  This is of course assuming that the minimums are met and I'm only talking about quality hands on HCE.  Volunteering as a candy striper is great experience, but I'm talking more about the RN, paramedic, military medic/ Corpsman roles. 

 

    I have looked at 187 PA schools and have pared my list down to less than 20.  It has amazed me how many have a low to no (500 hours or less) HCE requirement while having average cGPAs from matriculates be above 3.50. 

There have been a few studies published in the Journal of the PAEA that indicate there is no statistical difference in program aptitude when considering prior HCE. I dont have the citations but have read them in the past. I think every program has some sort of trade off between HCE and GPA but the bottom line obstacle a 1st year PA student has to overcome is 12 months or more of being drowned in academics. The student whom took a heavy load academically and did well can likely get through that better than the student whom took prereq classes while juggling HCE and other life responsibilities. Intensive training during that first year can develop very usuable clinical skills, likely an improvement over anything the student with significant HCE brought with them. Some schools will have a matrix they will rate students on, giving points to gpa, HCE, life experience, etc. For most programs, it first comes down to meeting prereqs, then exceeding them helps. But the interview is what gets you that invite. If it didnt, why would they have them? 

It is always enlightening to me to see whom ends up in a class in comparison to where I see them get ranked after interviews. Out of the 6 individuals I overwhelmingly voted to accept, only 2 actually came. In the meantime several students whom were firmly wait listed or tentatively asked to apply the following year were in those seats bright eyed and bushy tailed when I taught this week. So it really strikes me as a numbers game. Meet the prereqs, apply multiple programs, prolly get some interviews, likely get accepted or waitlisted.

G Brothers PA-C

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what upsets me is when I help out with interviews, rank someone best of 20 that day, and the program decides to not offer them a seat....generally a gpa issue, but not significant. last time for example paramedic with 5 yrs hce, biochem major with 3.5 gpa. cutoffm that day decided by the program was 3.6 so we got a bunch of 22 yr old candy strippers in the class....

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what upsets me is when I help out with interviews, rank someone best of 20 that day, and the program decides to not offer them a seat....generally a gpa issue, but not significant. last time for example paramedic with 5 yrs hce, biochem major with 3.5 gpa. cutoffm that day decided by the program was 3.6 so we got a bunch of 22 yr old candy strippers in the class....

 

Are you serious? A paramedic with five years experience, biochem major with 3.5 GPA didn't get in? 

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  • 3 weeks later...

what upsets me is when I help out with interviews, rank someone best of 20 that day, and the program decides to not offer them a seat....generally a gpa issue, but not significant. last time for example paramedic with 5 yrs hce, biochem major with 3.5 gpa. cutoffm that day decided by the program was 3.6 so we got a bunch of 22 yr old candy strippers in the class....

 

This really worries me. I've worked for 4 years as an EMT-B, two of them for FDNY in a high call volume area. I consider my HCE to be a strongpoint (and maybe my references), but my sGPA last cycle was 2.95, because of me being a dumb kid 9 years ago, and will have a 3.22 for this next cycle if all goes well. This has me very concerned.

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This really worries me. I've worked for 4 years as an EMT-B, two of them for FDNY in a high call volume area. I consider my HCE to be a strongpoint (and maybe my references), but my sGPA last cycle was 2.95, because of me being a dumb kid 9 years ago, and will have a 3.22 for this next cycle if all goes well. This has me very concerned.

just apply to programs that appreciate HCE and you should be ok with a 3.22. 2.95 would have been tough...good luck.

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