Chances at PA School

[cswift392]

Okay, I've been pretty set on being a PA since I moved to a Michigan where they are utilized a lot.

 

I graduated from the University of Kansas (my native state) with a BS in Respiratory Care with pharmacy pre-reqs. So, o-chem and micro. I have a 3.67 GPA and there's no reason I won't be getting a 4.0 in the rest of my pre-reqs.

 

I will have been a respiratory therapist for over a year when I put in my application. I'll have letters of recommendation from a PA that I work with, my RT supervisor, and one from one of my professors.

 

I haven't taken the GRE yet.

 

I really want to go to the University of Detroit Mercy, it's the only school I'm applying to as the other local one is Wayne and will not accept most of my credits from KU. I can't relocate because I'm married and my husband is settled in his career.

 

Any advice on admission? I'm concerned I'm not considered competitive.

[wesr_gordon]

You sound really competitive in my opinion. Do well on the GRE, keep accumulating health care experience and write a thoughtful personal statement and I don't see why you wouldn't be competitive. Do you have any shadowing of a PA or other volunteer experience? That would help.

 

You may have trouble just applying to one school however... acceptance rates are very low and in many cases spreading the net will help you out. Also, I've heard some schools find it off-putting if an applicant has only applied to their program as it tells them you think you are that much of a shoe-in. 

[cswift392]

That's kind of what I was thinking about the one school and it makes me nervous, but, I'm not prepared to retake my pre-reqs simply because it's not from a school they are used to working with quite yet. I'm going to put in a challenge for accepting my credits at the other school in downtown Detroit I think.

 

I volunteer with a hospice care facility and talk patients and family through that period. I don't have shadowing experience because I work with them one on one ever day I'm at work, I was hoping that would be enough.

 

Thank you so much for your advice!

[wesr_gordon]

That's kind of what I was thinking about the one school and it makes me nervous, but, I'm not prepared to retake my pre-reqs simply because it's not from a school they are used to working with quite yet. I'm going to put in a challenge for accepting my credits at the other school in downtown Detroit I think.

 

I volunteer with a hospice care facility and talk patients and family through that period. I don't have shadowing experience because I work with them one on one ever day I'm at work, I was hoping that would be enough.

 

Thank you so much for your advice!

 

I guess I'm confused. Where you take your pre-reqs (albeit some PA schools don't take community college credits) doesn't matter when you apply to PA school as long as you have the number of credits required in each subject. Are you talking about applying to one school to continue your prereqs or are you talking about applying to one PA school once your prerequisites are done? I went to a quarter school for undergrad and I had no trouble with credit hours not matching up.

 

Shadowing PA's in more than one specialty helps even if you see them at work (I was a scribe in the ER and internal medicine but I decided to shadow an ortho and an urgent care PA).  

[Guest MedLib42]

Shadowing is essentially a must for any PA school, even the ones that don't expressly require it for admission. Working side by side with PA's doesn't count as, or replace, shadowing, as many (if not most) applicants have worked with PA's, but while you're working, you are busy, the PA is busy, and shadowing allows you to dedicate your time and energy to observing the PA while you are not preoccupied with anything else. It also shows that you are dedicated to understanding the field, which helps immensely. I'd say a competitive application (for any school) would include at least 40 hours of shadowing, possibly more. 

 

As far as Wayne State not accepting your prerequisites from University of Kansas, I don't think they can ethically just refuse to accept credits from a particular school just because they are not familiar with it. As long as your prerequisites come from an accredited, four year university, they should be able to accept the prerequisites. If U of Kansas is unaccredited (or they mistakenly thought it was) that could cause a problem.

 

The only reason they would be able to deny your prerequisite credits is 1) if they are more than six years old (they have a six year minimum requirement for prereqs), 2) if they are actually not the right prereqs - for example, if they require 2 semesters of human A&P with lab, but you took Intro to A&P without lab, etc., 3) you got less than a "B" in any of your prerequisites (they have a "B" minimum), or 4) they were actually taken at a community college, and Wayne State doesn't accept CC credits. 

 

If none of those reasons apply to you, I'd contact them again, see if you can speak with someone else, and make sure they know that University of Kansas is an accredited 4 year school, the prerequisites match exactly what they require, and were taken within the last 6 years, and see what they say. 

[Guest]

I don't think shadowing a PA is necessary. I certainly did not do it. Also, when you just shadow without knowing the details of the profession (which only comes from being in PA school and doing clinical rotations), understanding what a PA does is very difficult. So, do it if you have time or have the chance to but don't go out of your way to do it. 

[jbscoops20]

Disagree with above.  If you want to give a program an excuse not to accept you, then by all means, don't take the time to shadow.  Even if you don't know exactly what the PA is doing in every aspect, it gives you an excellent chance to pick his/her brain.  Be proactive and ask questions about why they took certain steps, do they enjoy working in this particular specialty, how is their relationship with their SP?  You don't have to shadow 60 plus hrs, but it shows ADCOMS that you took the time to learn first hand more about the profession that you are hopefully passionate about joining.  Do you really want to hear an interviewer say, "your app looks great, but i'm curious about why you haven't shadowed a PA?"  Secondarily, when you get that inevitable question regarding why you want to be a PA and/or do you know what a PA does on a daily basis, you can answer confidently with actual shadowing experiences and aspects that excited you when you were observing.  ADCOMs don't want to hear a generic answer that seems as if you read it off of the AAPA website; telling a story about your experience comes across as much more personal and engaging.  

[Soulfari]

I never "shadowed" a PA personally. I shadowed many docs, in the OR and in clinic. I also worked side-by-side with an MD and PA in a busy derm Mohs surgical practice for ~2 years and was accepted to a public Florida university upon first attempt. 

 

I don't think shadowing is necessary as long as you can "sell yourself" in other areas, and truly exhibit a comprehensive knowledge of the PA profession and responsibilities within our health care system during your interview. 

But, shadowing never hurts. Especially if you're still unsure of diving headfirst into the profession. 

[Guest]

Hmm, I was never asked the question about why I didn't shadow a PA.

[db_pavnp]

When everybody shadows, nobody shadows.  Stand out by not shadowing!

[Joelseff]

I never shadowed. I suppose they counted the 22k hours of working side by side with docs and PAs as "shadowing"

[FcMike11]

I never shadowed. I suppose they counted the 22k hours of working side by side with docs and PAs as "shadowing"

What about schools that have explicit requirements? I ask because I am shadowing a PA now, but I have also been and ICU RN for 4 years.

[Joelseff]

If they explicitly want you to shadow I suppose I would do it. I think though it is ridiculous to demand shadowing if the applicant already works with/alongside PAs...

[EMEDPA]

If they explicitly want you to shadow I suppose I would do it. I think though it is ridiculous to demand shadowing if the applicant already works with/alongside PAs...

agree. I never did it but had 10 yrs as an er tech and paramedic working with PAs daily...

[LESH]

If a program requires it as a prerequisite its pretty much a done deal. It is a Catch 22 for applicants because it can be difficult getting past the " HIPAA issue" with various facilities. Still, folks are getting it done. Not every program requires it, but with the changing demographics of the applicant pool I can see why programs would want it.

[whoRyou]

 ... with the changing demographics of the applicant pool I can see why programs would want it.

Forgive my ignorance, but why would demographics change things in terms of shadowing? 

[fakingpatience]

Forgive my ignorance, but why would demographics change things in terms of shadowing? 

 

Schools lowering the HCE requirement, leading to applicants who don't work with PAs on a regular basis would be my guess.  

[LESH]

^ Yes, that is what I meant. Just another way to ensure that the applicant is a fit for the program.Just my 2 cents. I'm not trying to start anything.

[rrt2pa]

Here's my two cents on this topic.  I also worked as a respiratory therapist, but for many years before applying to PA school.  I had taken the GRE & got above the minimum scores.  I was in the process of completing my pre-reqs when I applied.  I only applied at U of D because I worked & had children; so I liked the 3 year option they offered.  I got in on my 1st application.  I don't think you have to shadow a PA (I didn't but worked beside them for years) & I didn't apply to multiple schools.  I had a good GPA, got the necessary scores on the GRE, & had a lot of clinical experience.  At the end of the day; don't let all of the noise distract you.  Do what's right for you; and if that's only applying at 1 school - than only apply at 1 school.  You might be surprised.

[MT2PA]

I was working full time in healthcare and taking pre reqs so I didn't have time to shadow. I got a ton of interviews bc I look great on paper but I know every single school asked me about my experiences with PAs. Some wanted to see shadowing and some were okay knowing I had worked with them professionally. I'm almost positive I would have had more acceptances if I had shadowed. That said, I did get in to a great program and all you need is one. So it's not a must, just know that most applicants do have shadowing experience.

[kaidou1412]

PA schools are extremely competitive.  I think you are pretty well prepared and competitive.  However, applying only one school is very bad choice.  Unless you have plenty of time to apply again and again every year, you may need to apply more schools.  I know it is tough decision though.

[cswift392]

Here's my two cents on this topic. I also worked as a respiratory therapist, but for many years before applying to PA school. I had taken the GRE & got above the minimum scores. I was in the process of completing my pre-reqs when I applied. I only applied at U of D because I worked & had children; so I liked the 3 year option they offered. I got in on my 1st application. I don't think you have to shadow a PA (I didn't but worked beside them for years) & I didn't apply to multiple schools. I had a good GPA, got the necessary scores on the GRE, & had a lot of clinical experience. At the end of the day; don't let all of the noise distract you. Do what's right for you; and if that's only applying at 1 school - than only apply at 1 school. You might be surprised.

I really appreciate your input. I am concerned about shadowing, I am having the hardest time finding a PA to shadow. Many places have halted shadowing or I know them and work with them which adds some controversy. But I've been told I need it and I degree definitely need a LOR. Do you have any suggestions?

[bleu]

I know different places across the country may vary, but I had pretty good luck with looking up names of PAs online and mailing them handwritten letters to ask them if I could shadow. For every 10 or so PAs that I sent a letter to, I heard back from about 3-4. Never underestimate the power of a handwritten letter.

[AshGBPAc]

For what it's worth:

 

I was recently accepted into their 2 yr program (Class of 2017) and at the time I submitted my CASPA (September 2014) I had 25 hours of shadowing experience.  By the time I submitted my supplemental application/resume (Februrary 2015) and interviewed (March 2015) I had 40 hours.  A few of the other programs I was applying for either required it or strongly encouraged it.

 

During my interview for UofD Mercy they did not ask about my shadowing experience, but that could have been because it was listed on my resume as part of the supplemental application.  Also that's not to say they didn't ask other applicants if they shadowed during the interview.

 

Have you been to one of their information sessions? I found UofD to be very helpful in answering my questions with pretty specific detail.  I had questions/concerns regarding letters of recommendation.

 

In regards to finding a PA-C to shadow, are you an affiliate member of MAPA? Maybe you could do some networking there and find someone.  Are there PAs at the hospice facility you volunteer at? Have you posted under the "Shadowing Opportunities" discussion listed under the Physician Assistant Student Forums?

 

Sorry to hear that shadowing PAs where you work would make waves. I shadowed at the hospital where I work as a Patient Care Technician and it was pretty convenient, not to mention I was able to participate with physical assessments because I was/am a bedside care employee.

 

Best of luck with the application process! :)
 

[dream2pa]

I am in the same boat. I tried networking thru LinkedIn, facebook forums and personal connections and still have no luck. I know 10 doctors who are willing to let me shadow anytime and will gladly write me a LOR But when it comes to PA I can't find single PA who could help me. I live in HOUSTON and we have a plethora of PAS here even one NP agreed to write me LOR. Why is that our future colleagues don't want to help us ? I am sure they were in my shoes few years ago :( it's so disappointing. Caspa opens next Wednesday and I still have no PA who could write me a LOR I am so nervous . I apologize if I have offended anyone but that was not my intention at all . Just venting :(