Medical School vs Physician Assistant School

[2234leej]

I would even consider becoming a Nurse Practitioner. I have thoroughly explored this forum and sought advice from many people in here. Based on my conversations, these are my thoughts:

 

1. You are not governed by the AMA and the nursing powers that be are extremely respected and effective. I personally believe there are more leadership opportunities in the nursing field compared to being a PA. 

 

2. While the curriculum is better and more consistent in PA school, most of the PA's and NP's that I talk to tell me that they're on an evening playing field after practicing for a couple years. It's unfortunate that many NP programs have fluff classes. However, there are some programs with a better curriculum (that would require research on your part).

 

3. The PA profession is not fully recognized yet in some medical organizations outside the U.S. The fact that PA's cannot join Doctors without Borders is stupid, but at this point in time it is what it is. 

 

4. I do not agree with the state decisions, but NP's have independence in over 18 states. I personally believe they should still work collaboratively with MD's/DO's, but the fact that they had enough power to get this approved speaks volumes. PA's will never have this capability nor will physicians let it happen. 

[Guest Paula]

If I remember correctly NPs can't work as NPs with Doctors without Borders.  They can work as RNs. 

[Maverick87]

I took both premed and prePA classes during undergrad and am currently working as a respiratory therapist.  I am 24 years old. I am still not sure what pathway to take(PA or MD). From your personal experience what are some pros and cons of being a PA. Do some of you guys wish you went for MD?  If yes why?

I'm a PA and would never be a doc. With the huge liability that is practicing medicine these days, I'm glad that there's always someone that has my back because they HAVE to. Also, I have absolutely no problem with people not regarding me as highly as a doc or other docs not respecting me because I'm a PA. It does happen (not that often), but it doesn't both me.

 

For the record, I started PA school when I was 23 and the more that I see in daily practice, the more thankful that I am that I did not go to medical school.

 

Of course, there are many PAs that disagree with me. To each their own. It depends on your personality type.

[Maverick87]

I would even consider becoming a Nurse Practitioner. I have thoroughly explored this forum and sought advice from many people in here. Based on my conversations, these are my thoughts:

 

1. You are not governed by the AMA and the nursing powers that be are extremely respected and effective. I personally believe there are more leadership opportunities in the nursing field compared to being a PA. 

 

2. While the curriculum is better and more consistent in PA school, most of the PA's and NP's that I talk to tell me that they're on an evening playing field after practicing for a couple years. It's unfortunate that many NP programs have fluff classes. However, there are some programs with a better curriculum (that would require research on your part).

 

3. The PA profession is not fully recognized yet in some medical organizations outside the U.S. The fact that PA's cannot join Doctors without Borders is stupid, but at this point in time it is what it is. 

 

4. I do not agree with the state decisions, but NP's have independence in over 18 states. I personally believe they should still work collaboratively with MD's/DO's, but the fact that they had enough power to get this approved speaks volumes. PA's will never have this capability nor will physicians let it happen. 

Personally, I disagree with this.

 

I have many friends that are NPs and we talk about this daily. Ultimately, NPs have the same liability as a doc, but without the pay. Also, there's WAY more schooling involved (especially with the beginning of the mandatory DNP). So you need to get your bachelors as an RN, then go to 4 years of school for your DNP. Might as well just go to medical school, imo.

 

In my humble opinion, the choices should be medical school vs. PA school. Becoming an NP just doesn't make sense anymore.

[2234leej]

Personally, I disagree with this.

 

I have many friends that are NPs and we talk about this daily. Ultimately, NPs have the same liability as a doc, but without the pay. Also, there's WAY more schooling involved (especially with the beginning of the mandatory DNP). So you need to get your bachelors as an RN, then go to 4 years of school for your DNP. Might as well just go to medical school, imo.

 

In my humble opinion, the choices should be medical school vs. PA school. Becoming an NP just doesn't make sense anymore.

 

There's some truth to this; you make valid points.

 

The DNP is a recommendation, not a mandate at this point in time. It was there goal to make it a requirement by 2015 but there are plenty of schools who are not following suit. You do not need a bachelors for many programs. Some just require master's degrees and others are direct entry programs that do not require a BSN. 

 

Having gone through physical therapy school and an orthopedic residency, medical school is not something I am interested in doing. However, I do think the extra 1-2 years of school to become an NP will be worth it (politically, leadership positions, autonomy, etc.) in my opinion.

 

I think the PA is a great profession. I have many friends who are PA's and NP's. They're both great fields. 

 

[aed9]

Can I vent here for a minute? I'm going to be starting PA school next year, and the other day I announced the good news to an older lady friend of mine (I actually don't know how long we'll be friends) and she straight up told me to my face that PAs are worthless. She told me that I was entering an "incompetent" profession and that at least NPs are "better trained" and so on. She has a chronic disease (used to be a nurse), and was misdiagnosed by a PA. Since that incident, she developed a hatred towards the PA profession as a whole. She also goes out of her way to spread her vitriol to everyone (her docs, family, friends) about how bad PAs are. So she won't see PAs anymore. Deep down, I know that she just had unfortunate experiences with PAs I guess and that she is biased, but it still was hurtful to listen to. Her set opinions make it difficult to even have a dialogue about the fact that her views might be limited. I am still dedicated to the PA profession, and dedicated to fighting for it so that it can advance. I just really, really, dislike all the opposition there sometimes exists between the doctors, nurses/NPs, PAs. I also dislike the ignorance there is about the PA profession. We need to educate everyone! Ugh. Ok. End rant. Thanks.

[FcMike11]

Can I vent here for a minute? I'm going to be starting PA school next year, and the other day I announced the good news to an older lady friend of mine (I actually don't know how long we'll be friends) and she straight up told me to my face that PAs are worthless. She told me that I was entering an "incompetent" profession and that at least NPs are "better trained" and so on. She has a chronic disease (used to be a nurse), and was misdiagnosed by a PA. Since that incident, she developed a hatred towards the PA profession as a whole. She also goes out of her way to spread her vitriol to everyone (her docs, family, friends) about how bad PAs are. So she won't see PAs anymore. Deep down, I know that she just had unfortunate experiences with PAs I guess and that she is biased, but it still was hurtful to listen to. Her set opinions make it difficult to even have a dialogue about the fact that her views might be limited. I am still dedicated to the PA profession, and dedicated to fighting for it so that it can advance. I just really, really, dislike all the opposition there sometimes exists between the doctors, nurses/NPs, PAs. I also dislike the ignorance there is about the PA profession. We need to educate everyone! Ugh. Ok. End rant. Thanks.

I work in an ICU (RN) so majority of my close friends are classmates I graduated with 4 years ago. I encounter this frequently, most of my coworkers are dumbfounded I'm not going to NP school. Sure I explained to a few why it fits for me, but its a waste mostly, people will listen to what they want to hear (especially if its fodding your own profession), not things like real clinical hour numbers.

[ItRainsItPours]

Comment deleted for inaccuracies. 

[2234leej]

@itrainsitpours:

 

I don't know if you meant to disrespect the PT profession, but I was slightly offended by your comments. For the record, I do not think it was entirely necessary for the APTA to change the masters requirement to a doctorate. However, as it stands, PT schools range from 3-3.5 years post undergrad; a PTA does not need a bachelors. All they require is an associates degree. The degree of education, differential diagnosis and pathophysiology is astronomically different.

 

Clinically, they are not allowed to perform joint thrust manipulation, dry needling, sharp debridement, or perform any kind of wound care. At the university of chicago, the burn care physical therapy team does all the lavage, debridement, NPWT, wound vacs, etc.

 

I don't know what type of physical therapists work at your clinic but I suppose there are bad apples amidst every profession. To say that an associates degree is closer to a physical therapy doctorate is ignorant given that a PA degree is 2 years beyond undergrad and an MD is minimum 6-8 years beyond undergrad.

[ItRainsItPours]

@itrainsitpours:

 

I don't know if you meant to disrespect the PT profession, but I was slightly offended by your comments. For the record, I do not think it was entirely necessary for the APTA to change the masters requirement to a doctorate. However, as it stands, PT schools range from 3-3.5 years post undergrad; a PTA does not need a bachelors. All they require is an associates degree. The degree of education, differential diagnosis and pathophysiology is astronomically different.

 

Clinically, they are not allowed to perform joint thrust manipulation, dry needling, sharp debridement, or perform any kind of wound care. At the university of chicago, the burn care physical therapy team does all the lavage, debridement, NPWT, wound vacs, etc.

 

I don't know what type of physical therapists work at your clinic but I suppose there are bad apples amidst every profession. To say that an associates degree is closer to a physical therapy doctorate is ignorant given that a PA degree is 2 years beyond undergrad and an MD is minimum 6-8 years beyond undergrad.

 

It was not my intention to offend anyone and I apologize. And I will admit that I based my comment on anecdotal experience and not a thorough understanding of the education processes of PTs and PTAs. I humbly withdraw my previous statement.

[2234leej]

It was not my intention to offend anyone and I apologize. And I will admit that I based my comment on anecdotal experience and not a thorough understanding of the education processes of PTs and PTAs. I humbly withdraw my previous statement.

@itrainsitpours: it's all good friend. I was not angry or anything of that nature. I think PTAs are great and they are fantastic in clinic. Just as the PA profession and curriculum needs to be respected, so does the PT profession.

[ItRainsItPours]

I agree. I too get frustrated when people make strong statements without all the facts, usually in politics, so as a principle I must be able to admit when I'm wrong and re-evaluate my stance. Thou shall not commit logical fallacies! 

[Maverick87]

Can I vent here for a minute? I'm going to be starting PA school next year, and the other day I announced the good news to an older lady friend of mine (I actually don't know how long we'll be friends) and she straight up told me to my face that PAs are worthless. She told me that I was entering an "incompetent" profession and that at least NPs are "better trained" and so on. She has a chronic disease (used to be a nurse), and was misdiagnosed by a PA. Since that incident, she developed a hatred towards the PA profession as a whole. She also goes out of her way to spread her vitriol to everyone (her docs, family, friends) about how bad PAs are. So she won't see PAs anymore. Deep down, I know that she just had unfortunate experiences with PAs I guess and that she is biased, but it still was hurtful to listen to. Her set opinions make it difficult to even have a dialogue about the fact that her views might be limited. I am still dedicated to the PA profession, and dedicated to fighting for it so that it can advance. I just really, really, dislike all the opposition there sometimes exists between the doctors, nurses/NPs, PAs. I also dislike the ignorance there is about the PA profession. We need to educate everyone! Ugh. Ok. End rant. Thanks.

LOL it's good that she feels that way. She sounds like a nut that will only cause her provider problems. There is nothing that I love more than massive pain in the ass patient that becomes too complicated for me or exclusively wants to be seen by the doc. 

 

Good riddance! The docs can have all of those patients as far as I'm concerned. :)

[PACdan]

...To say that an associates degree is closer to a physical therapy doctorate is ignorant given that a PA degree is 2 years beyond undergrad and an MD is minimum 6-8 years beyond undergrad.

 

This is a point that needs addressing. I see this example used quite often when comparing and contrasting and I feel it's a partially inaccurate representation between PA and MD.

 

An MD is not a minimum 6-8 years beyond undergrad, it is 3-4 years beyond undergrad. A individual who graduates from a medical school after 3-4 years is a doctor, they are an MD or DO as awarded by their institution. They can use that title, and those initials. What they are not, is able to legally practice medicine without a valid license.

 

A PA degree is most commonly 2.5-3 years beyond undergraduate today. A individual who graduates from a physician assistant school is a PA. What they are not, is able to practice medicine without a valid license.

 

A physician requires an internship year, and usually another 1-2 post-graduate years to obtain their unrestricted license. This is training; it's structured, it's regimented, but it is also paid work. The PA does not require a residency (although they are available in several flavors at this time) to obtain their license, but they are still in training. Most certainly it is not the same as a physician residency (except when it is, a la mixed with physician PGY-1s) , but their brains aren't shut-off after graduation either.

 

If you are awarding credit to physicians for knowledge and experience gained during their post-graduate years, I think it's disingenuous to discount knowledge and experience gained by PAs during their formative years post-graduation, by halting their education at "2 years".

[2234leej]

This is a point that needs addressing. I see this example used quite often when comparing and contrasting and I feel it's a partially inaccurate representation between PA and MD.

 

An MD is not a minimum 6-8 years beyond undergrad, it is 3-4 years beyond undergrad. A individual who graduates from a medical school after 3-4 years is a doctor, they are an MD or DO as awarded by their institution. They can use that title, and those initials. What they are not, is able to legally practice medicine without a valid license.

 

A PA degree is most commonly 2.5-3 years beyond undergraduate today. A individual who graduates from a physician assistant school is a PA. What they are not, is able to practice medicine without a valid license.

 

A physician requires an internship year, and usually another 1-2 post-graduate years to obtain their unrestricted license. This is training; it's structured, it's regimented, but it is also paid work. The PA does not require a residency (although they are available in several flavors at this time) to obtain their license, but they are still in training. Most certainly it is not the same as a physician residency (except when it is, a la mixed with physician PGY-1s) , but their brains aren't shut-off after graduation either.

 

If you are awarding credit to physicians for knowledge and experience gained during their post-graduate years, I think it's disingenuous to discount knowledge and experience gained by PAs during their formative years post-graduation, by halting their education at "2 years".

 

Dan,

 

I can kind of understand what you're saying. Please correct me if I'm going off course or misinterpreting you. 

 

I consider residency (even fellowships these days) part of the MD education and curriculum. Finishing medical school without a residency (and even a fellowship in some areas) will entirely eliminate you from the majority of jobs on the market. You can be a PA or a PT without a residency and still acquire a job. A physician's post medical school education and experience is structured, paid, and essentially a requirement. Those who do not match into a residency are panicking for these aforementioned reasons.

 

I am not discounting the education that a PA garners post graduate education. I also do not think it is disingenuous to consider the time for which they are actually part of structured school: PA (~2-3 years), PT (3-3.5 years), dentistry (4 years), PharmD (4 years), etc. 

 

At the end of the day, practicing as an MD/DO is far and away past the education requirements of the other healthcare professions. They are at the top of the food chain and deserve it after the hard earned effort. Hah they should NOT abuse their power and be ignorant of the high level of education that we as other healthcare professionals receive. 

 

[PACdan]

Looking at the total number of years can also be overly simplistic in the fact that some programs are continuous, while some have regular summer and winter breaks, etc. Looking at the total number of credit hours and total hours spent on clinical rotations is probably a more accurate extrapolation of experience.

 

However; there is no doubt whatsoever that MDs and DOs are at the pinnacle of training in the whole practice of medicine. Next would be PAs, as I cannot think of another profession that receives all the same systems training (again, not at the same depth) and is able to practice across all areas of medicine.

 

Someone can make the argument for NP, but we have been limited to formal educational years for the purpose of this discussion, of which PA programs exceed NP programs in areas of training, credit hours, and clinical hours.

[2234leej]

Looking at the total number of years can also be overly simplistic in the fact that some programs are continuous, while some have regular summer and winter breaks, etc. Looking at the total number of credit hours and total hours spent on clinical rotations is probably a more accurate extrapolation of experience.

 

However; there is no doubt whatsoever that MDs and DOs are at the pinnacle of training in the whole practice of medicine. Next would be PAs, as I cannot think of another profession that receives all the same systems training (again, not at the same depth) and is able to practice across all areas of medicine.

 

Someone can make the argument for NP, but we have been limited to formal educational years for the purpose of this discussion, of which PA programs exceed NP programs in areas of training, credit hours, and clinical hours.

 

I agree with you; the total number of years do not entirely dictate everything. This is another reason why the path to MD/DO is hard; it is the longest, most difficult, in-depth education that a healthcare professional can receive. 

 

PA's are generalists so I agree with you. I will say that there are NP programs with fairly comparable clinical hours and less fluff classes. Far and away PA education is more consistent than NP education. As someone who is going to NP school I had to really research which programs I wanted to attend. If I ever become an NP educator those fluff classes are going out the door. Or, at the very least, I won't be the one teaching them. 

[stellahead]

Here's one doctor's take on med school: "If you want to do the whole thing by video stream, you can," she says. "I would wake up at 10 a.m., work out for an hour or so, get some lunch and then video stream for 6 hours and then go to happy hour. It actually was not that bad." Nope, doesn't sound too bad after 15 months of 9-hour days of mandatory attendance with a bazillion other requirements and hoops to jump through on a daily basis.  

 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/11/27/366766639/millennial-doctors-may-be-more-tech-savvy-but-is-that-better

[PACdan]

Here's one doctor's take on med school: "If you want to do the whole thing by video stream, you can," she says. "I would wake up at 10 a.m., work out for an hour or so, get some lunch and then video stream for 6 hours and then go to happy hour. It actually was not that bad." Nope, doesn't sound too bad after 15 months of 9-hour days of mandatory attendance with a bazillion other requirements and hoops to jump through on a daily basis.  

 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/11/27/366766639/millennial-doctors-may-be-more-tech-savvy-but-is-that-better

 

Many of the med students at our neighbor school do this. They simply do not have mandatory attendance for most courses. Their lectures are available online via livestream and are recorded. Ironically, one of the few classes that does have required attendance is the partner course they take with us, lol. It's the only way to get them all to show up.

 

Dr. Stead thought the first couple years of medical school could be done via distance education, in the '50-'60's! You'd apprentice alongside a community physician in your home town (Cider House Rules style) and mail in some course work/tests. After two years you'd come to the brick-and-mortar institution to finish rotations and graduate. Of course, this never caught on with universities for some reason. *cough* $$$$$ *cough*

 

Some will argue that the doctor's hell will come in his 80-hour residency weeks. But there are plenty of FP residencies that are no where near as crushing as the prototypical surgical residency portrayed ad nauseam.

 

So yes, PAs should wear their 8am to 6pm, 5 days per week, of mandatory class attendance as a badge of honor. It's something that's disappearing from modern medical school.

[db_pavnp]

I'm not sure "badge of honor" is the correct term for it.

[PACdan]

I'm not sure "badge of honor" is the correct term for it.

 

Hmm, maybe just as a point of note when someone tries to belittle the work that PA students put in then.

[gbrothers98]

 

 

So yes, PAs should wear their 8am to 6pm, 5 days per week, of mandatory class attendance as a badge of honor. It's something that's disappearing from modern medical school.

Already starting to see this disappear from PA school.

 

Local program was presented very coherent argument by first year students about time and cost of attending 100% of lectures and impact it had on study time and reasonable sleep. Some had life situations that precluded them from maintaining a residence close to school or maintaining 2 residences. Commute time for some exceeded an hour each way. Then the price of commuting was also a factor, spending gas money over the course of the week that could be better used for other expenses.

 

I think if you polled a majority of PAs about their first year and the utility of attending lectures 8 to 5, many would respond negatively.

Education at the same time is moving overall to an asynchronous model in general and medical education has been making great strides in this area.

As pointed out in prior posts, the classroom is an environment that generations have become used to but really dont benefit or learn from in the majority. 

Real life is as far from the classroom as possible and learning to learn on your own is a priceless skill especially in medicine.

It also breaks the habit of answers being provided on a routine basis and instead developing the better habit of finding the answer on one's own. 

 

Guidance is needed but that does not require attendance on a daily basis nor long hours with a&& in seat trying to stay awake for tedious lecturer.

I attended a handful of lectures sponsored by the PAEA at last AAPA conference. It was apparent that focus was not on lecturing as a mainstay to deliver information but utilizing trends in education to improve classroom time such as flipping classroom, self directed learning and small group learning. Also an emphasis on getting students out of the classroom and into clinical setting early and often so that they could correlate classroom with practice. 

 

Alternatively, when discuss mandatory attendance with staff and faculty, main argument is that want to ensure students obtain information and meet that responsibility. I think that is rather paternalistic and to a certain extent reinforces the 'assistant' role. But I can see when presented with a limited amount of time to instruct students that a fall back on doing what has always worked (has it?) is adhered to. Plus some students are extremely comfortable with the student-lecture modality and believe they are not getting 'educated' any other way. 

 

G Brothers PA-C

[gbrothers98]

I took both premed and prePA classes during undergrad and am currently working as a respiratory therapist.  I am 24 years old. I am still not sure what pathway to take(PA or MD). From your personal experience what are some pros and cons of being a PA. Do some of you guys wish you went for MD?  If yes why?

As you can see over the 4 pages of responses and digressions, there is quite a breadth of opinion that may be helpful to you....or not.

 

I would turn this question back to you and ask, why would you want to be a PA or a physician?

Not compare one to the other but explain and justify why you would want to be a PA? Why do you want to be a physician?

Why not pursue being an RT as far as you can take it? Management, teaching, involvement on a state and national level?

You may turn out to be happier and less in debt. 

 

Realize that if you decide to pursue either, your life will change dramatically and possibly not for the best or easiest. There are plenty of younger and older PAs whom question their choices after the fact. But there are physicians whom also retrospectively regret their path. Anecdotally, I worked with a military physician whom repeatedly stated the happiest he was ever in his life was driving a truck for the army.  I look back at my fledgling enlisted military career that I abruptly ended to go to PA school. I was on track to be a success and could have easily had a 20 or 30 year career that would have been interesting and challenging. I took on debt, lost my first marriage and spent 2 years of school and 2 years after graduation struggling. Still have to work very hard on a regular basis while encountering plenty of obstacles. A professional life with less responsibility and more free time with same amount of money or more would be great. 

 

But there really is no such thing. I just remember periodically that my life could be worse. I have interesting and worthwhile work despite the encumbrances placed upon providers in medicine today. I make good money and can provide for my family. I certainly don't like aspects of my professional life but my overall life is quite good compared to many whom live on this planet. Perfection is for the young, I am happy with a good dose of pragmatism today.

 

Good luck in whatever endeavor you choose.

G Brothers PA-C

[PACdan]

Already starting to see this disappear from PA school.

 

Local program was presented very coherent argument by first year students about time and cost of attending 100% of lectures and impact it had on study time and reasonable sleep. Some had life situations that precluded them from maintaining a residence close to school or maintaining 2 residences. Commute time for some exceeded an hour each way. Then the price of commuting was also a factor, spending gas money over the course of the week that could be better used for other expenses.

 

I think if you polled a majority of PAs about their first year and the utility of attending lectures 8 to 5, many would respond negatively.

Education at the same time is moving overall to an asynchronous model in general and medical education has been making great strides in this area.

As pointed out in prior posts, the classroom is an environment that generations have become used to but really dont benefit or learn from in the majority. 

Real life is as far from the classroom as possible and learning to learn on your own is a priceless skill especially in medicine.

It also breaks the habit of answers being provided on a routine basis and instead developing the better habit of finding the answer on one's own. 

 

Guidance is needed but that does not require attendance on a daily basis nor long hours with a&& in seat trying to stay awake for tedious lecturer.

I attended a handful of lectures sponsored by the PAEA at last AAPA conference. It was apparent that focus was not on lecturing as a mainstay to deliver information but utilizing trends in education to improve classroom time such as flipping classroom, self directed learning and small group learning. Also an emphasis on getting students out of the classroom and into clinical setting early and often so that they could correlate classroom with practice. 

 

Alternatively, when discuss mandatory attendance with staff and faculty, main argument is that want to ensure students obtain information and meet that responsibility. I think that is rather paternalistic and to a certain extent reinforces the 'assistant' role. But I can see when presented with a limited amount of time to instruct students that a fall back on doing what has always worked (has it?) is adhered to. Plus some students are extremely comfortable with the student-lecture modality and believe they are not getting 'educated' any other way. 

 

G Brothers PA-C

 

Agree. There are many self-directed learners out there, and I think that the internet and computer age only fosters one's ability to self-teach. I won't totally discount the importance of the didactic with master teachers though. We've all had them, they are the truly great professors and instructors that have such an amazing style and ability to convey knowledge, that being in their presence is irreplaceable with books or computers. They are not the majority of teachers obviously.

 

I guess what I was trying to compare is the classical mindset of the rigors or "gauntlet" of education, specifically medical education. If people are going to use arguments demeaning PA education, let "ease" not be one of them.

[Boatswain2PA]

This is a point that needs addressing. I see this example used quite often when comparing and contrasting and I feel it's a partially inaccurate representation between PA and MD.

 

An MD is not a minimum 6-8 years beyond undergrad, it is 3-4 years beyond undergrad. A individual who graduates from a medical school after 3-4 years is a doctor, they are an MD or DO as awarded by their institution. They can use that title, and those initials. What they are not, is able to legally practice medicine without a valid license.

 

A PA degree is most commonly 2.5-3 years beyond undergraduate today. A individual who graduates from a physician assistant school is a PA. What they are not, is able to practice medicine without a valid license.

 

A physician requires an internship year, and usually another 1-2 post-graduate years to obtain their unrestricted license. This is training; it's structured, it's regimented, but it is also paid work. The PA does not require a residency (although they are available in several flavors at this time) to obtain their license, but they are still in training. Most certainly it is not the same as a physician residency (except when it is, a la mixed with physician PGY-1s) , but their brains aren't shut-off after graduation either.

 

If you are awarding credit to physicians for knowledge and experience gained during their post-graduate years, I think it's disingenuous to discount knowledge and experience gained by PAs during their formative years post-graduation, by halting their education at "2 years".

 

Dan - if you want to split hairs, then split hairs.  But bottom line is a PRACTICING physician has 6-8 years beyond undergrad, whereas a PRACTICING PA has only 2.