convulsed Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I'm part time lurker and long time subscriber to the forum, I just recently took my PANRE (5th year) and I similarly share the horrendous feeling that others have experienced. For example there was a question regarding what's associated with Cor Pulmonale the choices were Obstructive Bronchitis /Emphysema and 2 other choices (something to that extent..)I guessed Emphysema. Now most of the listed PANCE/PANRE review books mentions" COPD" is associated with Cor Pulmonale , however in an USMLE 2 book it does takes it one step further to state Bronchitis>Emphysema can lead to Cor Pulmonale Frankly In my opinion that's a BAD question , since even the official AAPA review material don't cover that breadth of info. Furthermore I'm slightly upset since I poured a lot of time into studying. I have purchased a few of the recommended texts here and even subscribed to a PANCE/PANRE question bank. I answered well over 1000 questions , and studied for a good 2 months, went to the USMLE 2 secrets /First Aids Pearls text for last minute refreshers and I left that exam feeling like crap. I read the PANRE warning signs on this site months ago and took the Primary Care exam and I'm blown away by the esoteric vignettes they listed as questions. I really don't recall this experience taking the PANCE 5 years ago. The keyword association did really not work for my version of the test (Not one Koplik Spot/Auer Rod/Philadelphia Chromosome, Currant jelly stool/sputum, bilateral hilar adenopathy), and the classic pathognomonic signs were hardly listed . I don't know how they score this test and how much of the 240 questions were pretest questions but I left that exam room in shambles thinking the fool proof study formula that got me my PA-C a few years ago was hardly applicable this time around. I don't know my score yet, but the overwhelming consensus is that the PANRE changed around 2011-2012? Just looking for guidance, tips from those who did well or those that flunk but passed the 2nd /3rd/4th time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quarternote Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Wait for your score. I felt the same way but my score was similar to my previous PANCE score. I walked out thinking my career was over. It may all be fine. Let us know after you get your score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 31, 2014 Moderator Share Posted October 31, 2014 I've taken PANRE 3 times. each time I thought I did poorly and did very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbrothers98 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I'm part time lurker and long time subscriber to the forum, I just recently took my PANRE (5th year) and I similarly share the horrendous feeling that others have experienced. Frankly In my opinion that's a BAD question , since even the official AAPA review material don't cover that breadth of info. Furthermore I'm slightly upset since I poured a lot of time into studying. The keyword association did really not work for my version of the test (Not one Koplik Spot/Auer Rod/Philadelphia Chromosome, Currant jelly stool/sputum, bilateral hilar adenopathy), and the classic pathognomonic signs were hardly listed . I don't know how they score this test and how much of the 240 questions were pretest questions but I left that exam room in shambles thinking the fool proof study formula that got me my PA-C a few years ago was hardly applicable this time around. I don't know my score yet, but the overwhelming consensus is that the PANRE changed around 2011-2012? Just looking for guidance, tips from those who did well or those that flunk but passed the 2nd /3rd/4th time around. This seems like a common theme over the last few years. I cut out some of your experience above to focus on a few things to comment on. I took the PANRE in 2011, did feel much less confident than I did 6 years prior on my first recert. Still scored in low 90%. That was in the midst of a 15+ career in EM with a high degree of autonomy in my practice setting and a more than reasonable amount of self confidence. There are bad questions on the PANRE because the NCCPA will place them to 'test' out questions and also to provide what I would interpret as a boundary of the cohort's knowledge in a certain subject. So for the question you are concerned about, it may be actually a test of the test question to enable the NCCPA to do the statistical work in determining where the cutoff for pass and fail is. Regardless, I think you made the right choice in your answer. But unfortunately you will never know. It sounds like you did your due diligence in studying. It is highly likely given the effort you placed that you will be successful. More on that later. For the PANCE, I think it is likely that keyword association can get you through the initial certification. To place in perspective though, we are not just out of school, we have been practicing for at least 5 years now. Our synthesis of medicine should reflect more than just keyword association. The charge of the NCCPA is to provide a test to measure the competency of practicing PAs in the area of general medicine. To do so requires much more than keyword association multiple choice questions but instead questions that are aimed at the underlying process of clinical reasoning and the refined understanding of a pathophysiological process from a more experienced clinician perspective. Yes, we all have to pull the big boy pants on. The NCCPA is clear on how they score the PANRE, same as they score the PANCE. You are grouped with your peers. This is not a straight percentage out of all the questions like you faced in school. So my test in 2011 was compared to the thousands that had taken it from 2007 to 2010. So you have to just suck less than the PA who guessed less right than you! In reality though, the NCCPA has a symbiotic relationship with the PA world, if they flunked all of us or even a distinct percentage, it would be chaos for them. We are their financial lifeblood. So consistently 98% of PAs pass this exam. The score that you need to achieve to not pass when looking at the score ranking seems to be akin to not showing up and is indicative of either extreme test anxiety or a loss of focus in medicine. So if you are a very specialized PA, I would be cracking on preparation for this test early and definitely do what you did, take in the 5th year in case you did not make the cutoff score. You will get your results according to anecdotal experience on the 2nd or 3rd Thursday following the test. Email in the afternoon. For those that cant wait, scuttlebutt is that you can go the NCCPA homepage the morning of every thursday and use the Verify PA Certification tool and get your answer sooner. Everything is in your favor for passing this test. When I walked out of the testing center in 2011. I was happy that I had not spent a lot of time studying because that was a test I felt I could not study for. It was surely not indicative of what I do on a daily basis for patients. As I sat at lunch with a sandwich and a heady topper to steady my nerves, I considered other careers and callings. 2 weeks later, I was reassured that I was not as incompetent as I thought and got back at it. I will be the first to congratulate you on passing. Strong work. G Brothers PA-C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkfish Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 This seems like a common theme over the last few years. I cut out some of your experience above to focus on a few things to comment on. I took the PANRE in 2011, did feel much less confident than I did 6 years prior on my first recert. Still scored in low 90%. That was in the midst of a 15+ career in EM with a high degree of autonomy in my practice setting and a more than reasonable amount of self confidence. There are bad questions on the PANRE because the NCCPA will place them to 'test' out questions and also to provide what I would interpret as a boundary of the cohort's knowledge in a certain subject. So for the question you are concerned about, it may be actually a test of the test question to enable the NCCPA to do the statistical work in determining where the cutoff for pass and fail is. Regardless, I think you made the right choice in your answer. But unfortunately you will never know. It sounds like you did your due diligence in studying. It is highly likely given the effort you placed that you will be successful. More on that later. For the PANCE, I think it is likely that keyword association can get you through the initial certification. To place in perspective though, we are not just out of school, we have been practicing for at least 5 years now. Our synthesis of medicine should reflect more than just keyword association. The charge of the NCCPA is to provide a test to measure the competency of practicing PAs in the area of general medicine. To do so requires much more than keyword association multiple choice questions but instead questions that are aimed at the underlying process of clinical reasoning and the refined understanding of a pathophysiological process from a more experienced clinician perspective. Yes, we all have to pull the big boy pants on. The NCCPA is clear on how they score the PANRE, same as they score the PANCE. You are grouped with your peers. This is not a straight percentage out of all the questions like you faced in school. So my test in 2011 was compared to the thousands that had taken it from 2007 to 2010. So you have to just suck less than the PA who guessed less right than you! In reality though, the NCCPA has a symbiotic relationship with the PA world, if they flunked all of us or even a distinct percentage, it would be chaos for them. We are their financial lifeblood. So consistently 98% of PAs pass this exam. The score that you need to achieve to not pass when looking at the score ranking seems to be akin to not showing up and is indicative of either extreme test anxiety or a loss of focus in medicine. So if you are a very specialized PA, I would be cracking on preparation for this test early and definitely do what you did, take in the 5th year in case you did not make the cutoff score. You will get your results according to anecdotal experience on the 2nd or 3rd Thursday following the test. Email in the afternoon. For those that cant wait, scuttlebutt is that you can go the NCCPA homepage the morning of every thursday and use the Verify PA Certification tool and get your answer sooner. Everything is in your favor for passing this test. When I walked out of the testing center in 2011. I was happy that I had not spent a lot of time studying because that was a test I felt I could not study for. It was surely not indicative of what I do on a daily basis for patients. As I sat at lunch with a sandwich and a heady topper to steady my nerves, I considered other careers and callings. 2 weeks later, I was reassured that I was not as incompetent as I thought and got back at it. I will be the first to congratulate you on passing. Strong work. G Brothers PA-C Heady! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketpropelled Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Mmmmm. Heady Topper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 The keyword association did really not work for my version of the test (Not one Koplik Spot/Auer Rod/Philadelphia Chromosome, Currant jelly stool/sputum, bilateral hilar adenopathy), and the classic pathognomonic signs were hardly listed . I went to a CME Resources PANCE review in August and they told us that NCCPA is moving away from buzz words. Rather than saying koplik spot in the vignette, they may describe what it looks like and you have to know that's what they're referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKPAC Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 IMO PANCE/PANRE is one of, if not the, most difficult exams in medicine, at least primary care. When I show our sample PANRE test questions to our docs, who regularly pass their FP and IM boards, they all agree that they are glad they don't have to take PA boards. I've seen some of their questions, too. I wish I could challenge their boards and become an MD that way. BTW, the NP board questions I've seen are total cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
convulsed Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 PASSED! My PANRE score was surprisingly higher than my PANCE score too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted November 10, 2014 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2014 Mmmmm. Heady Topper. oh man someone just said one of my favorite beers!! Seriously if you go to Stowe - you gotta hunt this down... and it is hard sometimes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbrothers98 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 oh man someone just said one of my favorite beers!! Seriously if you go to Stowe - you gotta hunt this down... and it is hard sometimes.... Pickwicks in Stowe gets it on Friday. If they run out, they have plenty of other great choices on draft. PASSED! My PANRE score was surprisingly higher than my PANCE score too! Cant forget the OP. Congrats GB PA-C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medic25 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 oh man someone just said one of my favorite beers!! Seriously if you go to Stowe - you gotta hunt this down... and it is hard sometimes.... I made a few different side trips during my family vacation to Vermont this summer trying to find the elusive Heady Topper, and was unsuccessful.... If any board members would like to send some my way I'd appreciate it :) At least I had the annual pilgrimage to Hill Farmstead to ensure some quality beverages for the vacation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFarnsworth Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 For all PAs taking the PANCE/PANRE: I have had to take the PANRE twice. Each time I was sure I did poorly. Each time I passed with a nice margin. I think it's common to feel as though you did poorly. Congrats to the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taotaox1 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 My PANCE in aug was not keyword heavy at all. I cant imagine passing it based on keywording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.