Where are all the male PAs ?????

[EMEDPA]

I am a preceptor several times/yr and more than max out my cat 2 cme with this. it would be nice if precepting counted towards the new cat 1 PI or SA cme requirements.

[LESH]

I am a preceptor several times/yr and more than max out my cat 2 cme with this. it would be nice if precepting counted towards the new cat 1 PI or SA cme requirements.

This isn't an option anymore? http://www.aapa.org/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=2109 I admit to being out of touch with things.

[gbrothers98]

^^

It is an option.

Program needs to apply for it and pay for it.

Fine print is that a max of 10 Cat 1 credits per annum awarded per preceptor.

G

[EMEDPA]

you get 1 credit hr of cat 1 for each 4 week rotation. so 40 weeks=10 hrs.

hardly worth applying for. make it 1 hr/week, 4 hrs/student/month, max 20/yr and I would be interested.

[EMEDPA]

What I haven't seen are a lot of threads where highly motivated and otherwise qualified applicants say they can't get in because they were scribes.

find threads by wesr_gordon ( I think that's right). 2-3 cycles of apps. no acceptances. big scribe proponent.

just so you know, it's not just scribe that I think of as poolr experience. phlebotomist, xray tech, and lab tech also are pretty low on my list, but all higher than scribe.

 

regarding scribe experience- the problem is that it is so highly variable. some scribes actually are more like scribe/techs and actually touch pts, assist with procedures, etc while some never are in a room with a pt and the provider dictates the encounter to them at the nurses station after the fact. this is actually the most common model I have seen at multiple facilities on the west coast. while the doc/pa is with the pt, the scribe is looking up and summarizing old records, etc.

When someone says " I was a paramedic in a busy 911 system for 5 years" or "I was an ICU nurse/resp therapist/etc at a major academic medical ctr for 3 yrs" everyone knows what that means. when someone says " I was a scribe for 6 months" that could mean a wide variety of things and on initial screening of 1-2 min/app. "scribe" goes in the trash and "911 paramedic" or "ICU nurse" gets a second look all else being equal.

 

as an aside, despite the fact that I have serious reservations regarding the experiences of certain folks entering PA school, I do my best to provide a quality rotation to all my students, despite their prior background. once they are in PA school it's my job to make my students the best providers they can be and to bring them up to speed if their prior experience was lacking.

[Z PA-C]

 

as an aside, despite the fact that I have serious reservations regarding the experiences of certain folks entering PA school, I do my best to provide a quality rotation to all my students, despite their prior background. once they are in PA school it's my job to make my students the best providers they can be and to bring them up to speed if their prior experience was lacking.

So are you saying that there is a probable chance that someone with less desirable HCE can get up to speed with someone who has solid HCE with enough time and effort combined with dedicated preceptors?

 

PS thank you for being one of those dedicated preceptors! We need more of you.

[EMEDPA]

So are you saying that there is a probable chance that someone with less desirable HCE can get up to speed with someone who has solid HCE with enough time and effort combined with dedicated preceptors?

 

 

no, I try. it's possible, but really tough without a residency for someone without significant prior experience to catch up with folks who have a lot. the whole culture of how a hospital works and the language of medicine can't be taught in 2 years. that's why docs get at least 7.

you have to learn to draw blood before you learn to start an IV before you learn how to place a central line. if we spend a lot of time on steps 1 and 2 we might not get to 3. if we start on 3 because you know 1 and 2 you will be way ahead.if you can already read an ekg we can talk about arrythmia management. if you can't we need to master that first. over the past 20 years my best students have always been medics(military or civilian), resp. therapists, and nurses(lpn or rn). I had one inpatient nutritionist/dietician who really impressed me a few years ago.she is still a forum member here.  a few medical assistants have done really well also. haven't been overly impressed with folks from other backgrounds in general.

[Guest Paula]

WhoRYou needs to find a candy striper (stripper) emoticon.  I need a laugh right now. 

 

Someday PA and MD/DO schools will be merged. 

 

Unless the NPs get there first. 

[Joelseff]

When we went from certification to Bachelor's degree and now Master's degree for all new programs and conversion of others by matriculation of 2020 class. The corpsman who leaves service with a family sees a much longer journey and perhaps simply can't afford to take that much time out of work. They are older with bills and responsibility.

 

I was a certified PA and wonder if my path would have been different today - given there doesn't seem to be a certification (alone) option anymore.

 

I entered PA school with an Associates of Science degree. If I was required to go two more years before applying to PA school, hmm....

 

i was 31 and my wife and two kids still needed a roof over their head and food on the table. Adding two years to my journey (making it a four year process) would have played a major role in my decision tree.

 

Bottom line, when we went from certification to graduate concept we impacted our demographics and this may play a large role in the shift seen (age and gender). Perhaps impacting the older non-traditional applicant (who has to balance spouse and children) more than any other potential applicant.

 

G

There still (for now) exists an option. Stanford/Foothill and I think a few others still offer a Cert/AS in PA. Then (again, for now) one can finish their Masters at ATSU sans a Bachelors Degree. I did it and a bunch of my classmates and some Faculty from my program are doing it this way. Rumor has it though that the ATSU Bachelors equivalency program will be going away once the Masters is mandatory upon graduation of the original PA program.

[Dunedain]

Recently I have seen an increased number of young (and attractive haha) female PA hospitalists on my critical care unit or when I float to other floors. There are still a couple male PAs who are in their 40s (former paramedics and RNs) who are around but all of the new hires seem to be female and many have 0 healthcare experience. For the most part these new providers are amiable but definitely lack some polish when it comes to professionalism in healthcare (lots of likes, OMGs and umms in admissions and discussion) as well as basic bedside/clinical skills. I am sure in time these deficiences will fade but what I thought PAs represented (grizzled HC professionals becoming providers) seems to be falling by the way side at least in my area.

 

Sometimes I just think screw it with my last couple pre-reqs (working full-time is killing me) and just go for NP :/

[PACdan]

 

 

(lots of likes, OMGs and umms in admissions and discussion)

You'll see/hear this with the new medical students/residents too, or pretty much anyone under 30 now. It's generational, not a exclusive thing.

 

 

[True Anomaly]

 

 

Someday PA and MD/DO schools will be merged. 

 

Unless the NPs get there first. 

 

There is no way NP and med school will ever merge.

 

If by some miracle it does, I'm leaving the PA profession

[ssmith]

Are there certain PA specialties where males tend to migrate?

[EMEDPA]

Are there certain PA specialties where males tend to migrate?

ortho, surgery, emergency medicine, critical care

[JohnnyM2]

find threads by wesr_gordon ( I think that's right). 2-3 cycles of apps. no acceptances. big scribe proponent.

just so you know, it's not just scribe that I think of as poolr experience. phlebotomist, xray tech, and lab tech also are pretty low on my list, but all higher than scribe.

 

regarding scribe experience- the problem is that it is so highly variable. some scribes actually are more like scribe/techs and actually touch pts, assist with procedures, etc while some never are in a room with a pt and the provider dictates the encounter to them at the nurses station after the fact. this is actually the most common model I have seen at multiple facilities on the west coast. while the doc/pa is with the pt, the scribe is looking up and summarizing old records, etc.

When someone says " I was a paramedic in a busy 911 system for 5 years" or "I was an ICU nurse/resp therapist/etc at a major academic medical ctr for 3 yrs" everyone knows what that means. when someone says " I was a scribe for 6 months" that could mean a wide variety of things and on initial screening of 1-2 min/app. "scribe" goes in the trash and "911 paramedic" or "ICU nurse" gets a second look all else being equal.

 

as an aside, despite the fact that I have serious reservations regarding the experiences of certain folks entering PA school, I do my best to provide a quality rotation to all my students, despite their prior background. once they are in PA school it's my job to make my students the best providers they can be and to bring them up to speed if their prior experience was lacking.

So, maybe we can agree that we are talking about different things. I would agree that if a scribe just sits at the nurses station and transcribes notes the experience is less relevant. My experience (daughter and her fellow scribes, not personal experience) is a busy ED in Tyler, TX where the scribes are very involved. They are with the M.D. and his/her pts for an entire shift, take notes on tablets for the EPIC system, order labs and other tests requested by the M.D., notify the doc when lab results are returned, order meds requested by the M.D. and, frequently, relay information to hospitalists and other docs as needed. All of this allows the doc to remain productive without having to chase down lab reports, do separate note dictation, etc. This was a great experience for my daughter and what she learned over two years was just incredible.

 

Just to be sure, she also volunteered one day per week at a local clinic for the under insured where her duties were a combination of MA and lab assistant, depending on what was needed, as they were very understaffed. The purpose of the volunteer work was partly to fulfill volunteer requirements and partly to have some "direct patient contact." Though she really enjoyed her volunteer work and felt that she was really making a contribution where it was greatly needed, by far and away her greatest learning experience was as a scribe. She is now in PA school, getting straight As, loving it (but working like a demon) and looking forward to clinical rotations next year. She was definitely a very well qualified candidate who got five interviews but, had she applied to your school, you would have simply rejected her out of hand.

 

Sent from my Kindle Fire HDX using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[EMEDPA]

glad to hear your daughter is doing well. you are correct that she probably would not have gotten an interview with the program I work with based on their experience requirements.

[JohnnyM2]

find threads by wesr_gordon ( I think that's right). 2-3 cycles of apps. no acceptances. big scribe proponent.

just so you know, it's not just scribe that I think of as poolr experience. phlebotomist, xray tech, and lab tech also are pretty low on my list, but all higher than scribe.

 

I checked it out and wesr_gordon got a bunch of interviews and was accepted into Arizona School of Health Sciences and the University of Bridgeport (possibly others.) Also, his GPA was a bit weak.

 

Sent from my Kindle Fire HDX using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[JohnnyM2]

glad to hear your daughter is doing well. you are correct that she probably would not have gotten an interview with the program I work with based on their experience requirements.

Thanks. Every school is obviously free to establish whatever requirements they wish. Clearly, there is no universal agreement on what makes the perfect PA candidate. The message for applicants reading this is research the schools and find the ones where you have the greatest chance of acceptance.

 

Sent from my Kindle Fire HDX using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[wesr_gordon]

find threads by wesr_gordon ( I think that's right). 2-3 cycles of apps. no acceptances. big scribe proponent.

just so you know, it's not just scribe that I think of as poolr experience. phlebotomist, xray tech, and lab tech also are pretty low on my list, but all higher than scribe.

 

regarding scribe experience- the problem is that it is so highly variable. some scribes actually are more like scribe/techs and actually touch pts, assist with procedures, etc while some never are in a room with a pt and the provider dictates the encounter to them at the nurses station after the fact. this is actually the most common model I have seen at multiple facilities on the west coast. while the doc/pa is with the pt, the scribe is looking up and summarizing old records, etc.

When someone says " I was a paramedic in a busy 911 system for 5 years" or "I was an ICU nurse/resp therapist/etc at a major academic medical ctr for 3 yrs" everyone knows what that means. when someone says " I was a scribe for 6 months" that could mean a wide variety of things and on initial screening of 1-2 min/app. "scribe" goes in the trash and "911 paramedic" or "ICU nurse" gets a second look all else being equal.

 

as an aside, despite the fact that I have serious reservations regarding the experiences of certain folks entering PA school, I do my best to provide a quality rotation to all my students, despite their prior background. once they are in PA school it's my job to make my students the best providers they can be and to bring them up to speed if their prior experience was lacking.

 

I've actually gotten into four schools and have only applied two cycles - and yes as a scribe with an EMT certification and some experience as one. The first cycle I applied fresh out of college and had outstanding prerequisites with no HCE.

 

I don't appreciate your condescension, and I hope you don't treat your PA students who are scribes the same way you treat people on this forum.

[kittryn]

women are typically paid less bc they tend to be poor negotiators (I'm a woman, and I had to learn the hard way how to negotiate for what I want/need, and hold fast to that - and get it in writing!).

 

so women will usually work for less, thus they are hired in disproportionally higher (relative) numbers. 

 

that's about it; happens in every profession

[EMEDPA]

I've actually gotten into four schools and have only applied two cycles - and yes as a scribe with an EMT certification and some experience as one. The first cycle I applied fresh out of college and had outstanding prerequisites with no HCE.

 

I don't appreciate your condescension, and I hope you don't treat your PA students who are scribes the same way you treat people on this forum.

I generally don't take students who were scribes at my primary job. I ask the program I work with to send me students with significant prior experience and a desire to work in emergency medicine. They generally send me medics, nurses, resp. therapists, and military medics/navy corpsmen. Sometimes medical assistants with significant experience and a broad variety of duties.

I have had some former scribes as students at my per diem jobs.

[BruceBanner]

My class was about 80:20 F:M. I think more women are drawn to it because they perceive they can have babies and still practice medicine. Which of course, you can. Many take maternity leave and then return part time or not at all. Same as any other area of the professional workforce. I think women also tend to make better students than men (as a group), so they have more of a running start when applying to professional schools. These days there are a million hoops to jump through to get into a program, so I think the studious/busy body nature of most girls lends itself to that.

 

Men are almost always the highest and lowest achieving students across all majors and programs, and frankly throughout society in general. The brightest of the bright, the best athletes, the prolific leaders and politicians are always male. However so are the homeless, derelict, the career criminals and sociopaths with violent tendencies.

 

In a nutshell it's because men are typically viewed as less special and more expendable in most societies, thus we are compelled to take greater risks and endure greater hardships in order to rise above the rest and succeed.

 

It generally behooves women to remain homogeneous, since they will be more likely to secure a mate and provider as well as raise their children successfully if they don't take such risks and measures as men. In terms of natural ability there are categorical differences obviously, but neither gender has some sort of monopoly on talent; its more how we apply it.

 

I think the major reason we are seeing fewer men excel in school is due to societal feminization and this tendency for academia to view boys as defective girls.

 

[arosswoods]

My class was about 80:20 F:M. I think more women are drawn to it because they perceive they can have babies and still practice medicine. Which of course, you can. Many take maternity leave and then return part time or not at all. Same as any other area of the professional workforce. I think women also tend to make better students than men (as a group), so they more of a running start when applying to professional schools. These days there are a million hoops to jump through to get into a program, so I think the studious/busy body nature of most girls lends itself to that.

 

Men are almost always the highest and lowest achieving students across all majors and programs, and frankly throughout society in general. The brightest and the bright, the best athletes, the prolific leaders and politicians are always male. However so are the homeless, derelict, career criminals and sociopaths with violent tendencies.

 

In a nutshell it's because men are typically viewed as less special and more expendable in most societies, thus we are compelled to take greater risks and endure greater hardships in order to rise above the rest.

 

It generally behooves women to remain homogeneous, since they will be more likely to secure a mate and provider as well as raise their children successfully if they don't take such risks and measures as men.

Can't be serious... Men endure greater hardships and are viewed as more expendable? Get back to me in fifty years on the "men as greatest leaders and politicians" theory.

[Acromion]

My class was about 80:20 F:M. I think more women are drawn to it because they perceive they can have babies and still practice medicine. Which of course, you can. Many take maternity leave and then return part time or not at all. Same as any other area of the professional workforce. I think women also tend to make better students than men (as a group), so they have more of a running start when applying to professional schools. These days there are a million hoops to jump through to get into a program, so I think the studious/busy body nature of most girls lends itself to that. Men are almost always the highest and lowest achieving students across all majors and programs, and frankly throughout society in general. The brightest of the bright, the best athletes, the prolific leaders and politicians are always male. However so are the homeless, derelict, the career criminals and sociopaths with violent tendencies. In a nutshell it's because men are typically viewed as less special and more expendable in most societies, thus we are compelled to take greater risks and endure greater hardships in order to rise above the rest and succeed. It generally behooves women to remain homogeneous, since they will be more likely to secure a mate and provider as well as raise their children successfully if they don't take such risks and measures as men. In terms of natural ability there are categorical differences obviously, but neither gender has some sort of monopoly on talent; its more how we apply it. I think the major reason we are seeing fewer men excel in school is due to societal feminization and this tendency for academia to view boys as defective girls.

 

 

 

I think everything you said is spot on. 

 

It is true from a purely biological standpoint, men are the more disposable sex. This is generally true throughout the animal kingdom, including humans. Just watch any nature documentary and It only takes one male to restore a population but females can only have a baby roughly once per year. Recent genetic analyses have estimated that 80% of our ancestors were female, and only about 40% of men throughout history have reproduced. That means roughly 60% of men throughout history could not get a mate or died before they could reproduce. This is biological reality is reflected in they way our society is structured as well. Men take the more dangerous jobs, die in wars, incarcerated in greater numbers. When the Titanic sunk, the lower class females were rescued before the upper class males. Everyone who works in medicine can observe the old stereotype that women are more likely to go to the doctor for every ache and pain, while men will often neglect their health until they show up in the ED with a STEMI.

 

 

Can't be serious... Men endure greater hardships and are viewed as more expendable? Get back to me in fifty years on the "men as greatest leaders and politicians" theory.

 

It is true that men disproportionately occupy positions of power, and I would add to this that yes, men ARE more likely to abuse their power and exploit those beneath them. But as BruceBanner mentioned, men also disproportionately occupy the absolute dregs of society as well. Men are also more exploited and abused by other men. 

 

In terms of IQ, talent, athletic ability, and just about every other measure of human achievement, the bell curve for men has a greater variance than for females, meaning that there are far more male outliers on both ends of the curve, whereas female distribution of these traits is clustered more towards the mean.

[Acromion]

women are typically paid less bc they tend to be poor negotiators (I'm a woman, and I had to learn the hard way how to negotiate for what I want/need, and hold fast to that - and get it in writing!).

 

so women will usually work for less, thus they are hired in disproportionally higher (relative) numbers. 

 

that's about it; happens in every profession

 

The gender pay gap is a complete myth. It's become a Democratic talking point to drum up the female vote. 

 

I was actually at a Democrat voter rally and saw Obama speak when he stumped on that old canard "women make 77 for every dollar that a man makes doing the same job."  (I'm non-partisan, btw - I was invited to go and decided to check it out)

 

That statistic is a perfect demonstration of the old adage "lies, damn lies, and statistics." It was derived by taking the average earnings of all men and comparing them to the average earnings of all females. Men are more represented in higher paying jobs, so of course there will be a pay gap in average earnings for all men and women. 

 

The wage gap statistic has been debunked numerous times. You can do some googling for more detail.