Guest SheROCblue Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 A question for all you Family Medicine PA's out there....about how many patients on average do you see in a day? I've been a FM PA in NY for just about 3 yrs now, and average about 23 pts a day, but my employer is pushing for more. Between call backs, and lab review, a regular 9-5 day just isn't possible anymore, and lunch time? What's that? Plus we don't get paid overtime, of course! Appreciate your input. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted May 22, 2004 Moderator Share Posted May 22, 2004 I worked urgent care/fp for a few years right out of school. typical day was about 25-27 pts in a 10 hr day. record was 63 pts in 10 hrs during cold and flu season. we had a cold/flu check off sheet that included sx/H+P findings and a tear off rx at the bottom. you could see someone triaged as low acuity cold/flu in less than 5 minutes using those forms. friends of mine who work fp see a pt every 15 min for 8 hrs with a 1 hr break for lunch(when they do call backs, etc while eating at their desk).so it's a 9 hr day with 8 hrs of pt contact(they get paid only for 8 hrs) in which they see 25-32 pts/day. it is an hmo setting so they get abused but good with lots of double bookings, add ons, etc at least they are well compensated and get good benefits(its a union gig). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SheROCblue Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Sounds like that's where I'm heading...HMO heaven, and all that with just a half an hour for lunch! Yipee!! No union though.... :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kr105 Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Hi, A normal day has me at my desk at 7am, reviewing labs back from overnight processing, as well as mail, signing orders (we are fully computerized) and reading pt's calls. I usually see 24 - 25 in a day starting at 8am with the last patient booked in at 3:20pm -- then it's call backs, new lab results, hospital mail (Clinic attached to a hospital in OK). While they technically give me an hour for lunch, it's taken at my desk while I finish up the morning charts. This is assuming that no one was complicated or needed an asap work-up, which would have me working thru my lunch in the exam room. 10 to 15 mins a patient does not work when it's acute chest or abd. pain. I could punt to the ER, but they go nuts every time I do that, so it's just easier to work them up in clinic if they are not in immediate danger. Obviously during Oct/Nov flu season, it's an all you handle patient buffet. One doc tried to implement group appointments, but everyone refused to do them. On average I usually leave between 5:30 and 7:00. Well, I've vented enough for one day. Hope the info helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SheROCblue Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Thanks kr105 for the response. Guess everyone is working hard out there. I just sometimes wonder if I am getting paid the salary I should be for working on Long Island. AAPA salary survey says I should be making about 63k....but I'm more than shy that. My boss says I am more than compensated by my supposed benefits. 4wks vacation, paid CME, and a pension plan after 5yrs of employment. I work for an out pt clinic that is owned by the hospital, so what's nice is I get to work out pt hours, with holidays off. We do call by phone for 1wk of each month, and have a hospitalist grp that covers our out pts in the hospital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kr105 Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Hi, $30/hr - is he crazy??? A good administrative assistant in NYC makes more than you do - with BETTER benefits and half the hassles. Dump the cheapskate! I actually interviewed with one joker who wanted to pay $25/hr and thought that was fair. We do the work, we get the pay! You could always look at working for a large pharm. company. You would not be practicing medicine, but you would be looking at a starting salary of over $100K with a master's degree. It's something to consider. Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest andee515 Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 Hi, I work in rural family practice, which really varies. I see anywhere from 15 to 30 in an 8-10hr day, have seen as many as 45. No one else around so they have to be seen either here or one of us has to leave to go to the ER to see them. I would say you are getting the short end of the stick on income. I'm whining about mine and I get a little more than your "average"(may want to check that #, my guess is it is more), I get 2 weeks vacation, but all my overtime is given to me in hours off, so I get another 2-4 weeks off with that, a week off for education with expenses, retirement they meet 7% of my income 150% and next week I am going in to say I need more! We make a lot of money for our employers, you need to keep that in mind. andee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustaPA Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 I hear a lot of concerns voiced on this thread, workload, salary, benefits. As somebody that hopes to be negotiating my first contract in about a year I was wondering if the contracts that most PAs get are for them or their employer. Seems to me that one should be able to protect oneself in the contract with limits on what is the number of pateints to see and take care of that problem. That is unless the contract is there to protect the employer, then they would have you under a barrel. Any of you seasoned PAs have eny suggestions for contract negotiations? Does somebody just out of school have any leverage to insist on parameters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SheROCblue Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Here is another thing to boot....I have ONE exam room! :confused: I thought most practioners have at least two. Medical economics indicate to be most efficient a practioner should work out of three exam rooms. How many rooms do you guys have (for out patient practices)? Having just one room really slows me down like if I have to give IV fluid hydration to a pt, or a nebulizer tx....this tacks on the minutes which can really add up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest phonebookreader Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Your employer must be plain stupid. One room limits production and pisses off patients. That always hits the bottom line. Thats PA misuse and it will bite him and he will displace on you. I would run some numbers and show him the green. That usually gets their attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carmen SanDiego Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 You could always look at working for a large pharm. company. You would not be practicing medicine, but you would be looking at a starting salary of over $100K with a master's degree. It's something to consider. Best of luck! Is this true? How would a pharmaceutical company use PA's? They're not at all qualified to do what the medicinal chemists or molecular biologists do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kr105 Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 Hi, PAs are used in a host of positions including sales rep, clinical studies, onsite healthcare provider, marketing / medical education etc. Obviously if you have additional education like Public Health or business - then the door is open even wider. If you have clinical research experience along with a doctoral degree you can look at the medical director positions (very nice salary!) Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eah1819 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Anybody have any feedback for how many pt's they are seeing in specialty practice? Also how much control do you have over your schedule if you need to make small adjustments say come in an hour earlier and leave early etc? I feel PA's I worked with in school had a lot more flexibility then I do now despite working 55+ hour per week on salary, I have to get any schedule change approved 1 month in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caine Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 )I work in endocrinology/int med. i see 25-33 pts on an average. I work 9-5.30/6pm no break for lunch (although the dr and MA are in the office till 8pm mosst days. It gets old pretty quick. My dr. is nice but very cheap. i make about $35/hr. I feel i am underpaid for all the work i do. Not to mention returning pt.s ridiculous calls, reviewing labs, and also taking call every 2 weeks(no extra $$$). I am looking for another job as i feel i am slaving away. Not to mention the $90.00 bonus check my employer gave me dec 2006. what an insult. The guy is nice but very stingy with money. that is why we have a new medical assistant every 8months. He only hires new grads, pays then peanuts and after a few yrs-1yr thy quit. between my dr and i seeing 70+ pt.s we share only ONE medical assistant. Isn't that crazy. The PLUS side is I have control over my schdeule i can adjust it on wed and fridays as i am in clinic all day by myself. sorry i didnot mean to vent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pagirl1 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Oh my gosh! $63,000 in NYC area? That is highway robbery! you need to lobby for more or look for another gig! I think every specialty across the board pushes for more productivity. My ER group is constantly working on ways to increase productivity. When I first started out as a PA in fam practice, I used to see a patient every 15 mins and basically set my own hours with the front office staff. I got paid per patient, no outside benefits, health etc. $10 per patient for regular visit and $20 per patient for annual physical or well woman exam. I can't imagine seeing a pt Q15 mins using only 1 room for turnover. I don't think it is feasible. You need to limit pts to a 15 min slot, bring them back for anything you can;t resolve in 15 mins, unless it is an annual physical. When I am slaving away in the ER on nights and weekends, I dream of outpt medicine. Thanks for snapping me back to reality, I really don't miss that life! I think the single biggest factor to happiness in outpt medicine is having a great relationship with your SP. You have to see eye to eye on things. Otherwise, the stress runs too high! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gimlet72 Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I agree it is very important to get along with your supervising practitioner. The issue I have found with many doctors, especially in primary care is that they are very cheap. The fact is doctors are not making as much as they used to, so they are hiring PA's. Once the PA is up and running they realize how much money they are making off of you and do not want to increase your pay. My wife works for a PCP. Originally my wife was on call every third week The other doctor in the practice left and she is now on call 50% of the time, which includs hospital call if they have a patient admitted. My wife asked for 10$ for every patient she saw while on call ( the average hospital patient will reimburse 50$ a visit). The doctor would rather take call two weeks in a row rather than pay her. It is a lucky thing to be a PA and find a doctor willing to pay you good money to keep you around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSinn Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 ave 30pts/ 8hr day with dictating after each patient..I am one of the slower PAs in the group. Some average 45+/day. MDs see 35 + patients...I am dbl booked on top of the hour every hour....Yea for the clinic life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezianna Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I must be one of the slowest PAs around, or living in some other Twilight Zone, but I cannot understand how anyone can see 30, 40, 45+ patients in an 8 hour day, assuming that you're talking about family practice. You barely have enough time to say hello, never mind deal with multiple chronic problems, psych issues and patient education. Then of course there's the documentation, callbacks, lab review, etc. Where is the qualify of life for the provider and patient satisfaction? At my most recent FP job, a full day was 20-24, and that included the usual lunch at your desk, staying at least 10 hours a day to wrap everything up. I am an experienced provider, and reading these posts tells me I'm either foolishly out of touch with modern medicine, or in the wrong business - or, I've been very fortunate to have somehow avoided these assembly lines. I've been interviewing for a new position recently, and fear that it won't be long before I'm subjected to beancounter medical practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules0328 Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 wow, after reading some of these posts, I thought I was underpaid working in primary care but maybe i was mistaken. I do live in NY though and I feel that making 75K per year is not enough. I am a new grad, but I have been at this family practice for 1 year now. I see on a good 30-35 patients in a 10 hour day. It's a lot of work, and half the time, I am really backed up. There are two MD's and two PAs. We have about 4 medical assistants and 3 interns at a time. So, I guess we have plenty of help. I feel rushed all the time though and have had to learn most of my medicine on a whim, doing a lot of research after hours. Certain things, they dont teach you in school. I am definitely due for a raise...just working on how much I should ask for. Plus we get incentive bonus, so I am just waiting to see my numbers this month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderskier Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 I am hoping that since the OP was from 2004, he is now making more than 63K. I will be a new grad in a few months and laugh at the thought of me seeing anywhere near 30 pts / day. Hoping 75k to start will be motivating to buy some new running shoes for sprinting around the clinic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SheROCblue Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 Well, here is an update to this thread that I started back in '04. I'm stll at the same place and the medical director now considers me to be a "founding member" of the practice being that I am the only original pratitioner left! I have a solid pt following. My current salary is 89K. No raise in 2yrs due to the economy, but thankful to still have a job! The Med director told me she is happy if I see 20 pts/day. She is pushing the doctors to see more pts, about 20-30/d. I have 2 exam rooms and a PT med asst. It's gotten better, but we are still having issues with how the office is run. If you would like to tell me how your office runs, please check out my thread under subspecilaties internal medicine/family practice....I would love to know! And @ Weeziana.....I completely agree with you! I don't know about you, but I must have at least 2-3 pts cry on me a day, and I can't exactly just chuck them out the door! Everything you said, you hit the nail right on the head. I would think twice about leaving your current job, there are a lot of factory like practices out there. Unfortunately, these are the one's making $$ and current employers like yours and mine of course want to make $$, but what about the quality in pt care? How is primary care supposed to make $$ other than by the amount of pts seen in a day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezianna Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 Since that last post, I have worked a couple of brief temp jobs in FP, where I saw about 18-22 patients a day. I am currently working in a specialty practice, seeing new consults and follow up patients. We usually see 20 patients a day; perhaps that doesn't sound like that much but I am on the run all day, and I'm usually there at least 1-2 hours into the evening completing dictations. Even though this is a specialty practice, people do come in with other concerns, and the 15-minute time slot runs out quickly. There are a lot of elderly and lesser-educated people in the practice, and they sometimes need a little extra time to get in and out, understand instructions, and to feel like they've been heard. They view the practice very positively, and I can't tell you how often they tell others that their doctors "talk to them". There is always the push to see more patients, as revenue is part of the business of healthcare. I think we provide a good balance of high quality care and volume, although the financial people probably see things differently! Sometimes I still wonder though, whether I'm lost in a time warp or am just a second rate practitioner, if I don't think that 30+, 40+ patients in an 8 hour day is okay. I don't know how you all crank out that many visits, but you have my admiration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romeo_from_ussr Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 You could always look at working for a large pharm. company. You would not be practicing medicine, but you would be looking at a starting salary of over $100K with a master's degree. It's something to consider. Hi, i am half way through my clinicals, haven't decided a preferred field, can you please elaborate on the "pharm" positions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted December 24, 2011 Moderator Share Posted December 24, 2011 Hi, i am half way through my clinicals, haven't decided a preferred field, can you please elaborate on the "pharm" positions drug rep. waste of a pa education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 :=D: on a brighter note, I work inpatient psychiatry...$ 44.50/ hr....exempt, therefore my 40 hr week can easily turn into 45-50 hrs/ wk. 4 wk PTO, 10 holidays paid, 1 week+ $1500 CME, call one-in-3 wks = $250 (and it's 99% phone calls). 7% of annual salary per year from employer goes to pension. I see as few as 10 or as many as 20 pt/dy, just depends. my sessions are at least 20 minutes up to 1 hour. my own office. and I've been in psych 5 years, both inpt and outpt. I have been blessed. :smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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