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VA once again lower PA then NP


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Job Title:Nurse Practitioner / Physician Assistant

Department:Department Of Veterans Affairs

Agency:Veterans Affairs, Veterans Health Administration

Job Announcement Number:405-2014-SUR-1132774-021

SALARY RANGE: $45,155.00 to $111,809.00 / Per Year OPEN PERIOD: Monday, June 30, 2014 to Monday, July 07, 2014 SERIES & GRADE: VN-0603/0610-00 POSITION INFORMATION: Full Time - Excepted Service Permanent   DUTY LOCATIONS: 1 vacancy in the following location:
White River Junction, VT View Map
WHO MAY APPLY: United States Citizens SECURITY CLEARANCE: Not Applicable SUPERVISORY STATUS: No
JOB SUMMARY:

 

Vacancy Identification Number (VIN): 1132774 

 

 

 

To fulfill President Lincoln's promise – "To care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan" – by serving and honoring the men and women who are America's Veterans. 

 

How would you like to become a part of a team providing compassionate care to Veterans?

  

As a VA professional, your opportunities are endless. With many openings in the multiple functions of VA, you will have a wide range of opportunities at your fingertips. Not only is it the largest, most technologically advanced integrated health care system in the nation, but we also provide many other services to Veterans through the Benefits Administration and National Cemeteries.

 

Applicant's education and experience will be reviewed by a Professional Standards Board in determining the grade and salary of the applicant selected. The recommended salary may be at any point in the range listed for this vacancy.

 

Nurse Practitioner: Salary, $60,946.00 to $111.809.00 per year.

Physician Assistant: Salary, $45,155.00 to $98,923.00 per year.

 

Special Employment Consideration:  VA encourages persons with disabilities to apply. The health related positions in VA are covered by Title 38, and are not covered by Schedule A excepted appointment authority.

 

TRAVEL REQUIRED
  • Not Required
RELOCATION AUTHORIZED
  • No
KEY REQUIREMENTS
  • U. S. Citizenship
  • Must pass pre-employment examination
  • English Language Proficiency required
  • Designated and-or Random Drug Testing required
  • Background and-or Security Investigation required
  • Selective Service Registration is required for males born after 12/31/1959
DUTIES:Back to top

 

EDUCATION DEBT REDUCTION PROGRAM (EDRP): “The applicant(s) selected for this position may be eligible to apply for an education loan reimbursement award under the provisions of the Education Debt Reduction Program, subject to availability of EDRP funding.”

 

This position is located in the Surgical Service.  

Surgical Outpatient Care duties for the Nurse Practitioner and Physician Assistant include but are not limited to:

  • Solicit full, accurate patient history for patients on ENT/Head & Neck Surgery Service
  • Perform complete physical examination with emphasis on head & neck
  • Develop a care plan in collaboration with supervising ENT physician, patient and caregivers
  • Obtain preliminary interpretation of routine diagnostic labs, and other tests
  • Write orders for studies and medication under attending supervision
  • Counsel and instruct patients and family members on issues such as physical and mental health, diet, disease prevention and therapy, family planning, etc
  • Implement therapeutic plan
  • Participate in consultation handling and encounter closure efforts
  • Participate in communication with patient including returning phone calls and secure messages through MHV
  • Provide emergent medical intervention as needed until physician arrives
  • Work collaboratively with medical students, residents, fellows, attending and all other staff
  • Teach medical students, residents and fellows in the Physician Assistant/Nurse Practitioner areas of expertise
  • Develop skills in, and subsequently provide, ENT/Head & Neck office-based procedures, under supervision of ENT physicians
  • Under physician supervision, triage the new and established patient office visits and operating room schedules to ensure timely Veteran access to care

 

Surgical Inpatient Care duties for the Nurse Practitioner and Physician Assistant include but are not limited to: 

  • Assist with in-patient consults as needed
  • Review and implement appropriate plan of action with attending of record
  • Discuss and coordinate care with appropriate services
  • Document care provided
  • Work collaboratively with medical students, residents, fellows, attending and all other staff
  • Teach medical students, residents and fellows in the Nurse Practitioner/Physician Assistant areas of expertise

 

 

QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED:Back to top

 

Nurse Practitioner Qualifications:

Citizenship Citizen of the United States.

English Language Proficiency:  No person shall be appointed to direct patient-care position unless you are proficient in spoken and written English as required by 38 U.S.C. 7402(d) and 7407(d).

Physical Requirements: Must pass a pre-employment physical.

Education or Training:  Applicants must be graduates of a school of professional nursing approved by the appropriate state agency accredited by National League for Nursing Accrediting Commission (NLNAC) or Commission on Collegiate Nursing Education (CCNE) and possess a current, full, active, and unrestricted registration as a professional Nurse Practitioner in any state, territory, or commonwealth.   Additionally, successful completion of formal education program which prepares nurses to function in an advanced practice setting is required.   Certification by a national certifying organization (ANA, etc.) as an advanced practice nurse is also required.

Nurse Practitioner (NP): Will have a minimum of a master's degree in nursing/nurse practitioner major, and board certification as an NP from a VA-approved body required.

VA HANDBOOK 5005, PART II, Appendix G6. http://vaww1.va.gov/ohrm/Directives-Handbooks/Documents/5005.pdf

 

Physician Assistant Qualifications:

Basic Qualification Requirements:

Citizenship:  Citizen of the United States.

English Language Proficiency:  No person shall be appointed to direct patient-care position unless you are proficient in spoken and written English as required by 38 U.S.C. 7402(d) and 7407(d).

Physical Requirements:  Must pass a pre-employment physical.

Education or Training:

1.  A bachelor's degree from a PA Training program which is certified by the Accreditation Review Commission on Education of the Physician Assistant (ARC-PA);

or

2.   Graduation from a PA training program of at least 12 months duration which is certified by the ARC-PA and a bachelor's degree in a health care occupation or a health-related science;

or

3.   Graduation from a PA training program of at least 12 months duration which is certified by the ARC-PA and a period of progressively responsible health care experience such as an independent duty medical corpsman, licensed practical nurse, registered nurse, medical technologist, or medical technician.   The duration of approved academic training and health care experience must total at least 5 years.  

Certification:   As of March 12, 1993, certification by the National Commission on Certification of Physician's Assistants (NCCPA) is a requirement for employment.   This requirement does not apply to non-certified PAs on VA rolls as of that date.

VA HANDBOOK 5005, PART II, APPENDIX G8. http://vaww1.va.gov/ohrm/Directives-Handbooks/Documents/5005.pdf

 

 

Veterans' Preference:

When applying for Federal Jobs, eligible Veterans should claim preference on their application or résumé. Applicants claiming preference based on service-connected disability, or based on being the spouse or mother of a disabled or deceased Veteran, must complete an SF 15, Application for 10-Point Veteran Preference. Veterans who are still in the service may be granted tentative preference on the basis of information contained in their applications, but they must produce a DD Form 214 or other proof prior to appointment to document entitlement to preference.  For more information on Veterans' Preference, please visit http://www.fedshirevets.gov/job/veterans.aspx.

 

 

 


OTHER INFORMATION:
This position is in the Excepted Service and does not confer competitive status. 

 

Receiving Service Credit for Earning Annual (Vacation) Leave:  Full-time Nurses and Physician Assistants earn eight (8) hours of annual leave and four (4) hours of sick leave for each full biweekly pay period. 

 
AGENCY CONTACT INFO:
Cathy L. Messina
Phone: (802)295-9363x6509
Email: CATHY.MESSINA@VA.GOV
Agency Information:
VHA White River Junction VAMC
Department of Veterans Affairs
215 North Main Street
Human Resources
White River Jct, VT
05009
 
WHAT TO EXPECT NEXT:
After we receive your complete application package (including any required documents), your qualifications will be reviewed to decide if you meet the basic requirements.  You will be notified when this decision is made.

 

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How about some polite emails to Cathy to explain our displeasure with the fact that they are paying a PA about 15k less then an NP

 

 

AGENCY CONTACT INFO:

Cathy L. Messina
Phone: (802)295-9363x6509
Email: CATHY.MESSINA@VA.GOV
 
 
Job Announcement Number:

405-2014-SUR-1132774-021

Control Number:

371364400

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I'm willing to bet this has a lot to do with the fact that an NP must have a graduate degree while there are still Bachelor and Certificate PA programs out there.

 

As long as there is that kind of difference in education requirements then NP's will get the higher pay from the gov't.

 

Make all PA programs graduate level and the gov't salaries will match or be to close to make a difference compared to NP's.

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I do not understand how PAs can afford to work for the VA. How does a PA take a job with a max salary of 98k ? How do you practice medicine in a VA which I imagine cares for some complex patients and walk away with 50K ?  Maybe there is a bonus structure or something. And I guess a pension after 20 years ? But Id rather work and get paid 140 when I am seasoned than live on a 60k taxed pension. All of these new PAs once we hit saturation will take these jobs no problem. 

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Ah, the devil is in the details.  The $98K top end is what is offered in N. Texas for primary care as well (12/10 grade scale).  When you take into account that you work an 8-4:30, M-F schedule with all federal holidays off, five weeks paid vacation the first year as well as accrued sick hours, multiple investment options (vested after five years) including an employer Roth IRA option aside from your personal Roth, they cover all related costs of employment (including light rail pass for myself to travel clear across the county), you get a waiver on DEA fees both from the state and the DEA, as well as several smaller, less obvious benefits such as hotel/travel discounts as a federal employee, AND you don't have to potentially fret over malpractice worries.

 

For myself at the tail end of my career, my pension after five years will come to right at $1K/mo. for life beginning as early as age 60.  That, in addition to my county pension and personal savings, should get me through to SS enrollment as early as age 62.  The argument that one should delay SS payouts as late as possible are being questioned more and more based upon the time value of money.  For myself, considering that my primary residence is paid for, I anticipate these four resources replacing 71% of my current income, not including the savings on then non-existent payroll taxes, personal disability insurance, etc..  All that being said, I also reside in one of the lower cost-of-living states in the country.  While we don't have a personal income tax, those who own property make up for it with our property taxes.

 

I do agree that the pay scale should be equal.  It is no different that the gender pay differences that we see in today's society.

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The pay will (hopefully) be equal when the minimum academic requirements are equal.  We can argue about equivalent competencies but in a degree driven environment, the degree difference translates directly into compensation.  Write to Denny or Cathy, but only if you are willing to change the minimum expectation for the PA applicant to a master's as well.   Then be prepared for the NP to change the minimum to a DNP.

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I don't think it is education driven

 

I think it is because NP's are independent and PAs are not

 

They are going after removal of all supervision, we just got supervision changed to collaboration 

 

As well there are life long nurses that are in management positions that are making hiring decisions, and policy....

 

 

https://www.vapaa.org/

 

 

February 9, 2014

Dear Colleagues;

As we begin a new year I want to reflect on what has been accomplished and look forward to where we are headed.  Thanks to the painstaking work of Mr. Denni Woodmansee and the VA PA Field Advisory Committee we have a new PA Utilization Directive.  This new directive is leaps and bounds ahead of the prior utilization directive.  Gone is the term “supervision”!  The new directive has PAs collaborating with physicians and practicing with varying degrees of autonomy as part of a team.  This reflects how we have been practicing all along.   I recently had a teleconference with AAPA and all the Uniformed Services PA leaders to discuss the changes set forth in the new directive and how we could capitalize on “the rising tide”.   This new directive has prompted AAPA to look at reworking much of their documentation.  Additionally, the Uniformed Services PA leadership is working to incorporate the language from our new directive.    What a WIN for our profession!  Don’t be surprised if this new directive has a ripple effect on other healthcare professions.  As a result of the new utilization directive, the PA PSB at San Antonio met with our Chief of Staff office and we have started rewriting the PA Scope of Practice.  I have been tasked to use the utilization directive to write our local policy.  I would encourage all of you to read the directive, meet with your service chiefs and chief of staff and lead from the trenches.

For those that have been following the PA Forum, you probably noticed the resurgence of frustration (some would use different expletives here) over the PA-NP pay disparity.  This is an issue that VAPAA has been and will continue to push forward.  There are basically two roads to travel:

1. We can bombard our elected officials in Congress to put pressure on the Secretary to include PAs in the Nurses Locality Pay System.  This would be the easiest and quickest way to start correcting the pay disparity.  It likely would not bring total parity but would be a step in the right direction.  To do this I need all VA PAs, VAPAA members and none members to become involved by emailing their elected officials and asking them to contact the VA Secretary.  I will provide the template and language that I feel would be most effective.

2. We can work with Congress to pass a VA PA Pay reform bill much like the VA Nurses did with the Nursing Pay Act of 1990.  I believe this path will be the longest and hardest, especially when you consider that Congress is unable to agree on anything and has passed very few bills of any real substance over the past several years.  I’m sure they would disagree with me that but I do have freedom of speech.

I think we can travel both paths, at least for the foreseeable future.

VAPAA will be the guests of the Society of Army PAs (SAPA) at their annual conference, 28 April through 2 May 2014, please plan on attending.  During the SAPA Conference, we will have our Annual Board of Directors and General Membership meetings along with quality CME and you can visit with old friends and make some new ones.

VAPAA Elections are just around the corner.  The offices of President and Vice President as well and three (3) Directors will be on the ballot for 2014-2016.  Please consider becoming more intimately involved in your organization.

We are in the final stretch of a much needed and long overdue Bylaws revision which will return power to the members.  Thanks to Rubina, Mike, and Denni for all the hard work!

Best,

Jim Cavanaugh, PA-C
President VAPAA

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I don't think it is education driven

 

I think it is because NP's are independent and PAs are not

 

They are going after removal of all supervision, we just got supervision changed to collaboration 

 

As well there are life long nurses that are in management positions that are making hiring decisions, and policy....

 

It has nothing to do with independence. With the last changes in VA rules there is very little difference in PA or NP collaboration rules. Instead it has to do with the way that PA and NP salary is calculated. PAs are under the GS system. PAs are classed 7/9/11 This puts the salary for a GS 7 at the lower end of the range (non masters PA,) a masters PA would come in at GS 9 (around $51k) and a PhD PA (GS 11) would start at $62k for new grads. A masters PA moves to GS 11 at one year and GS 12 at 2 years then advances by steps to max of GS 12 step 10 at $98k. You can play with the numbers here:

http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2012/general-schedule-gs-salary-calculator/

For a description of the process:

http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/classification-qualifications/general-schedule-qualification-standards/0600/physician-assistant-series-0603/

 

For NPs they are classified as nurses and use the local competitive pay system which looks at nurses locally and then adjusts pay. Its the same system they use for physicians. 

 

Obviously few PAs would work at the GS salary. So VA has to go through all sorts of gyrations to award special pay and bonuses to try to make the salary equitable. Its been one of the things AAPA and VAPA has been working for quite a while.

Whomever, put out this add didn't even try to make the salary equitable.

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Guest Paula

I see the same salary discrepancies  in the Indian Health Service system between PA/NP and assume it is because of the nursing stronghold in the IHS system. 

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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/want-lot-money-theres-really-211915131.html

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/wage-chart-2014-6

 

I think it might be more common than people think (it --referring to wage earned by PA vs NP).  Even though some of us earn in the 90th percentile, there are a lot more PAs who earn less than NPs. (96.1K vs 94.3K according to the links above.  

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To add a bit of insight into this discussion.

I live within 2 miles of this facility.

The cost of living here requires a salary between the top # for the PA range and the top # for the NP range.

Entry into real estate, utilities, food, all costs here are ridiculous in New England.

The top # for NP salary is the bottom range for most civilian PA and NP positions locally.

If someone has time in the VA system, wants to move to VT, has plenty of equity to bring to the real estate table here, they may consider it.

But this range for either PA or NP is fast becoming a low ball wage for a professional around here. They will have a hard time recruiting IMO.

G Brothers PA-C

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  • 3 weeks later...

Here is a closed announcement for a PA or NP in Mental Health. Note the salary range. Note that no recruitment incentives are offered. Requires two years experience. No NPs responded to the announcement. Four PA students who were graduating this year responded. One experienced PA responded. Note that the announcement is written for Physician's Assistant and requires National Certification of Physician's Assistant license. Note sole source requirement that the candidate manage the buprenorphine clinic. The person who wrote this announcement is a Psychiatrist who wanted a Psychiatrist in the position but wanted to demonstrate that no PA or NP was "qualified" for the job. They interviewed the experienced PA (5 years) without any intention of ever hiring the candidate (and making the candidate drive 2.5 hours each way for a 1 hour "interview" that was patronizing and confrontational.) Candidate was interviewed by a social worker who manages the mental health service. Two advance practice providers observed. After the candidate left, the social worker manager states "I don't think PAs have any Psychiatry training in their programs like Nurse Pracs." Sometimes, people have such strong bias that they really are not interested in knowing the facts. VA hiring can be unfair and uninformed. Bewildered candidates don't realize the political machinations underway in these hiring processes.

 

Job Title:Physician Assistant or Certified Registered Nurse Practioner (Behavioral Health)

Department:Department Of Veterans Affairs

Agency:Veterans Affairs, Veterans Health Administration

Job Announcement Number:AA-14-EBu-1110256-MHC

This position is closed and no longer accepting online applications through USAJOBS.

The contents of the announcement can still be viewed.
SALARY RANGE: $41,239.00 to $90,344.00 / Per Year OPEN PERIOD: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 to Thursday, July 10, 2014 SERIES & GRADE: VN-0603/0610-02/12 POSITION INFORMATION: Full Time - Permanent   DUTY LOCATIONS: 1 vacancy in the following location:
State College, PA View Map
WHO MAY APPLY: United States Citizens SECURITY CLEARANCE: Other SUPERVISORY STATUS: No
JOB SUMMARY:

 

Vacancy Identification Number (VIN): 1110256

Salary: To be determined by Professional Standard Board of your peers and based on your education, experience, and professional accomplishments.

 

 

You could be part of an important initiative to provide mental health care for our nations Veterans!

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I just talked to an NP who works for a VA in Illinois.  She was saying that the numbers they post are BS, that you negotiate higher.  When I told her I was looking she said that most are paid over 100K starting.  That was for PA and NP!  My Girlfriend used to work for the VA and she went in saying what she made at a civilian hospital and it was more than the posted amount.  They paid her what she was looking for, then again she is a veteran so that could of helped.  If they post a job I will apply and see if it works out.  I have to deal with the red tape/rigidness of the Gov, and the laziness.  The benefits look good though.

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I was offered the max posted for a position in my area, which exceeded the geographical variance based on location that I found on the web. I considered it fair for what I would be doing, considering the benefits, paid commute, time off, and security for the five years employment that I anticipate working. I discovered last night that by qualifying for a retirement payout (5 years and age 62, so I'll need to cover two years on my own if I want out at age 60), I also qualify for health insurance at employee rates. I will still however keep my eyes open for something closer to home.

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