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Job Outlook for PAs vs NPs in CA


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This was done at a school that had PAs and NPs take the same classes and trained them together. Not likely to happen at other institutions.

also this was almost 20 years ago, my friend was already a BSN and the only difference between pa and np at the time at uc davis was something like 3 nursing theory classes.

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One could attend Western Governer's University's online program. 2 year online BSN and you do clinical rotations / lab work during the weekend.

 

Then you'd have your pick at any NP program. This would probably be the path of least resistance to working as a PA and getting your NP.

 

Unless one challenges the paramedic exam (if that's possible) and then does the paramedic to RN bridge and then does their NP.

 

There's lots of options out there.

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One could attend Western Governer's University's online program. 2 year online BSN and you do clinical rotations / lab work during the weekend.

 

Then you'd have your pick at any NP program. This would probably be the path of least resistance to working as a PA and getting your NP.

 

Unless one challenges the paramedic exam (if that's possible) and then does the paramedic to RN bridge and then does their NP.

 

There's lots of options out there.

paramedic to rn bridge gives you an ASN. most places require a BSN , although a few like umass have ASN to DNP programs.

the excelsior(used to be regents) program for ASN is entirely online and can be done in 1 year by a paramedic or lpn so I'm guessing a pa could do this as well. no clinical time. there is a precepted clinical procedures exam that lasts 2 days that most folks fail at least once.

at this point in my life I would consider a hypothetical pa to msn np if it could be done entirely online in less than 1 year for less than 5000 dollars and without getting the rn or doing clinical time. I know that won't ever happen. just as well.

honestly, a residency, LECOM bridge to DO, or just moving to another state should be considerations as well for anyone considering switching to np.

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So after many restless nights I can't believe I am saying this but I think I'm going to go the NP route. I don't like the mode of training at all (PA far superior in my opinion) but I feel my hands are tied after talking to countless PAs and NPs in this area. Seems as though ER and surgery are the areas where PAs reliably get jobs in the Bay and those are not really my interest areas.

 

Other than that, I see PAs working mostly at county hospitals or private practices- and private practices are selling out to the big hospital systems at an alarming rate. I think things could change down the line but with the information I have in front of me I feel like NP is the choice that will afford me the most job opportunities. That coupled with the UCSF name seems to generate a lot of respect in the area. I feel like I'm losing a friend in the PA community. :( If I'm missing something please let me know- otherwise I look forward to collaborating with you as healthcare professionals in the future. I will always be a PA advocate.

 

 

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So after many restless nights I can't believe I am saying this but I think I'm going to go the NP route. I don't like the mode of training at all (PA far superior in my opinion) but I feel my hands are tied after talking to countless PAs and NPs in this area. Seems as though ER and surgery are the areas where PAs reliably get jobs in the Bay and those are not really my interest areas.

 

Other than that, I see PAs working mostly at county hospitals or private practices- and private practices are selling out to the big hospital systems at an alarming rate. I think things could change down the line but with the information I have in front of me I feel like NP is the choice that will afford me the most job opportunities. That coupled with the UCSF name seems to generate a lot of respect in the area. I feel like I'm losing a friend in the PA community. :( If I'm missing something please let me know- otherwise I look forward to collaborating with you as healthcare professionals in the future. I will always be a PA advocate.

 

 

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Did your due diligence and it came out NP. No one can fault you for that. Advanced practice clinicians need to stick together and glad you'll be one that see past political BS. Hope it all works out for you like you plan.

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So after many restless nights I can't believe I am saying this but I think I'm going to go the NP route. I don't like the mode of training at all (PA far superior in my opinion) but I feel my hands are tied after talking to countless PAs and NPs in this area. Seems as though ER and surgery are the areas where PAs reliably get jobs in the Bay and those are not really my interest areas.

 

Other than that, I see PAs working mostly at county hospitals or private practices- and private practices are selling out to the big hospital systems at an alarming rate. I think things could change down the line but with the information I have in front of me I feel like NP is the choice that will afford me the most job opportunities. That coupled with the UCSF name seems to generate a lot of respect in the area. I feel like I'm losing a friend in the PA community. :( If I'm missing something please let me know- otherwise I look forward to collaborating with you as healthcare professionals in the future. I will always be a PA advocate.

 

 

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Remster,

 

I am a BSN-RN currently trying to decide between the NP and PA route as well. Here is my thought process, for what it's worth:

 

1. If I was NOT already an RN, I would choose PA 100%! That first year of your 3 year program will be HELL! I absolutely hated nursing school and knew I wanted to go on to be an NP after, and there were days I almost gave up. It's not that the work is dififcult, it's just very, very draining, especially if you have no intention of even working as an RN. During clinicals, you will be given the grunt work (aka: cleaning feces off of patients, giving bed baths, changing linens), and learn very little that is practical to being a provider. Nursing theory courses will bore you to tears as you learn the theory as to WHY you need to change the linens every few hours. Many professors talk about providers like they are Gods and can do no wrong, and that the nurse is a grunt who needs to shut up and do as they are told. It's humbling and degrading.

 

2. In general, the PA curriculum is much more in depth than the NP curriculum. That being said, the TOP NP programs are very different, and places like UCSF are likely comparable to the average PA program, though PA programs still have better standardization, more clinical hours, etc.

 

3. NPs obviously have more autonomy, and that will likely continue moving forward.

 

If you had your BSN already I would say it's just which you prefer: better entry level preperation but less autonomy, or starting out behind the curve a little with more independence. Since you DO NOT have your BSN however, I strongly recommend PA school. You will wish you had when you're trying to eat breakfast at 4:30AM for your 3rd day in a row of giving bad baths to the entire bariatric floor. If you strongly desire intellectual pursuits such as medicine, nursing school will be a huge buzzkill until you get to the NP portion.

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Thanks everyone for the comments. I appreciate them more than you know. I know the first year as an RN will be awful. I got my CNA license to get healthcare experience and definitely know about all that grunt work and the totally unappealing side of nursing. I also know I'll hate nursing theory- 100%. I'm definitely NOT excited about those two things but feel like I have to look at the end goal of finding a great job above all else. When talking to tons of Cardiologists and Cardiology NPs over the past few weeks at PAMF, UCSF, and the VA I only know of one PA working in Cardiology at any of those institutions and he/she (using this as to not give away any clue to the person's identity) is on sort of a "trial basis" with all MDs and him/her as the PA. He/she had also worked as a PA in cardiology for over 10 years in a mediocre cardiology private practice (I say mediocre because he/she said it was low paying, lacked bonus, had older docs on their way to retirement that weren't on the "cutting edge") before being able to get into PAMF at all.

 

This is seriously a very hard decision to make and I'm still open to any further comments/thoughts. Just trying to give you some insight into what I've discovered. Thanks all. :)

 

 

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Thanks everyone for the comments. I appreciate them more than you know. I know the first year as an RN will be awful. I got my CNA license to get healthcare experience and definitely know about all that grunt work and the totally unappealing side of nursing. I also know I'll hate nursing theory- 100%. I'm definitely NOT excited about those two things but feel like I have to look at the end goal of finding a great job above all else. When talking to tons of Cardiologists and Cardiology NPs over the past few weeks at PAMF, UCSF, and the VA I only know of one PA working in Cardiology at any of those institutions and he/she (using this as to not give away any clue to the person's identity) is on sort of a "trial basis" with all MDs and him/her as the PA. He/she had also worked as a PA in cardiology for over 10 years in a mediocre cardiology private practice (I say mediocre because he/she said it was low paying, lacked bonus, had older docs on their way to retirement that weren't on the "cutting edge") before being able to get into PAMF at all.

 

This is seriously a very hard decision to make and I'm still open to any further comments/thoughts. Just trying to give you some insight into what I've discovered. Thanks all. :)

 

 

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Alright, well think long and hard before your decision! I would also like to point out that you can cement your place in cardiology (either as a PA or NP) with a cardiology fellowship. I know of one at Mayo Clinic (Arizona location) for NPs. I have seen them for PAs as well.

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  • 2 years later...

Hello,

 

I am actually in a similar but slightly different situation. I too have been admitted to a PA program and a 3yr NP program at a certain amazing school in my home state. Unlike your situation, the PA school I have been admitted to is a couple of states over. It is a newer (almost 1 yr old at this point) program. They have their provisional accreditation currently. The program seems promising but again is still new. I do not have a spouse or children so that helps but I do have a sister that would probably move with me. She has a lot of medical issues and would probably be better off in the bay area where there is amazing tertiary care. To make it more confusing I also have an interview for a brand new program at a currently established dental school in Northern CA. It seems promising but I was thinking that it would be quite the gamble to turn down the PA program out of state and the amazing NP program and for them to not receive their provisional accreditation. That program starts in Jan. and I wouldn't find out if they got their accreditation until months after the other two programs start.

 

I cannot tell you how torn I am between the caliber of the school in my home state and the fact that I think I would rather be a PA. If anyone has any input, I would greatly appreciate it. 

 

How did things end up working for you Remster 825? Lexapro?

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Roo, I have been trying to think of a good way to advise you regarding this dilemma.  I think it may be best said like this:

 

The more specific your intentions are, the more clearly one path vs the other may become with research.  If you want to work in a specific area of practice, it would be prudent to investigate that area for a preference.  Some of these are pretty blatant.  PAs have graduate anatomy built into their programs and this is surely a big advantage for surgery.  NPs have a psych / mental health route and this is surely a big advantage for psych.  And so on.  If you want to work in a specific geographic area, I would investigate the area.  If you want to work in a specific organization, the same advice.  This grows more important as you begin to compound such issues.

 

I feel most PAs and NPs are magnanimous enough to propose the above.

 

What is a little tougher and I feel a bit under recognized is that RNs can acquire experience with patient populations that are largely off limits to most other medical professionals.  That is to say it could be hard to get the cardiology job that NPs with 2-5 years of cardiology RN experience are applying for.  At the same time, acute care NPs without ER experience may very well struggle to get that ER job out from under the paramedic gone PA.

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To give you some idea of how difficult it can be to break into some of the NP strongholds in N CA I have been looking for a cardiology job in the SF/Bay Area after completing a cardiology residency and I have been denied at a few places simply because I am not a NP.

 

Wow, are job prospects that bleak? May I ask what region or area you've been applying too? I'd have figured after completing a cardiology residency, you'd be hot stuff no matter where you want to be located. Is it that difficult to break in? 

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Wow, are job prospects that bleak? May I ask what region or area you've been applying too? I'd have figured after completing a cardiology residency, you'd be hot stuff no matter where you want to be located. Is it that difficult to break in? 

 I think it is a combination of two factors: 1. San Francisco is a NP friendly place with a strong nursing union and 2. Lots of folks want to live in SF/Bay Area and when they get a job there they don't leave. I have also found that many docs in the West don't know how to incorporate PA's into their practice. For instance one place I was interviewing for mentioned that the docs thought that hiring a PA would be good because "the PA could just answer the phone calls to the office". Yeeahh.....I didn't take that job. Didn't do a cardiology residency to be a secretary. 

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Hello,

 

I am actually in a similar but slightly different situation. I too have been admitted to a PA program and a 3yr NP program at a certain amazing school in the bay area of CA. Unlike your situation, the PA school I have been admitted to is not in CA it is a couple of states over in Utah. It is not University of Utah, rather a newer (almost 1 yr old at this point) program. They have their provisional accreditation currently. The program seems promising but again is still new. I do not have a spouse or children so that helps but I do have a sister that would probably move with me. She has a lot of medical issues and would probably be better off in the bay area where there is amazing tertiary care. To make it more confusing I also have an interview for a brand new program at a currently established dental school in Northern CA. It seems promising but I was thinking that it would be quite the gamble to turn down the PA program in Utah and the amazing NP program in NorCal and for them to not receive their provisional accreditation. That program starts in Jan. and I wouldn't find out if they got their accreditation until months after the other two programs start.

 

I cannot tell you how torn I am between the caliber of the school in CA and the fact that I think I would rather be a PA. If anyone has any input, I would greatly appreciate it. 

 

How did things end up working for you Remster 825? Lexapro?

 

Honestly, I don't think you'll have any trouble finding PA jobs in Cali.

 

I recently left the military and was stationed in Cali. For a time, I was looking for jobs in that area. I had a TON of options. Most were from central and SoCal, but a few were from NorCal. A good portion were for primary care clinics.

 

Of course, I wasn't a new grad and can't speak for that experience.

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 I think it is a combination of two factors: 1. San Francisco is a NP friendly place with a strong nursing union and 2. Lots of folks want to live in SF/Bay Area and when they get a job there they don't leave. I have also found that many docs in the West don't know how to incorporate PA's into their practice. For instance one place I was interviewing for mentioned that the docs thought that hiring a PA would be good because "the PA could just answer the phone calls to the office". Yeeahh.....I didn't take that job. Didn't do a cardiology residency to be a secretary. 

Agreed! Taking a secretary-type job would have been counter-productive to all you've achieved.

 

I'm from Berkeley, graduate in May of 2017, and plan on returning back once I finish up here in VA. I was aware that CA was a bastion for NPs due to the union - I just didn't think it would be that hard to break in. Especially with three PA programs within a 60 mile radius of the Bay Area (Samuel Merritt, Stanford, and Touro). Thanks for the heads up. 

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I had heard Northern California was more NP friendly but never that much so. How is Southern CA in terms of PA vs. NP acceptability and employ-ability for new grads? 

I officially have 3 choices:
-3yr RN/FNP program
-PA program, 1st cohort, accreditation application filed
-PA program, 2nd cohort, provisional accreditation

 

My goal has always been primary care. I have a public health background (I enjoy the "whole pt." approach) but I think I prefer the medical curriculum of PA school. So confused what to do. Thanks for the input!

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PA to NP, NP to PA. This is all hypothetical that will never happen. Overall, it's the same job with minimal to gain either way. It would more likely be PA/NP to MD/DO and yet that is still farfetched because the gain is minimal for the time requirements. Although, more bridges are in the works.

 

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What bridges are in the works?

I don't know any bridges from PA to NP or vise versa but there is LECOM, I believe there other location is opening it up too. Of course we have the DPAM at lynchburg. The DMS starting in the Appalachian part of the country. Oceania/Ross NP/PA to MD but are foreign.

 

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