Do Not Become a PA

[cbrsmurf]

The grass is always greener on the other side.

 

Because there's more shit?

[dchampigny]

N=1

 

 

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[Maverick87]

 

To all and any who are considering the PA profession as their future career -

 

 

Choose a different career path.  I've been a PA for 17 years and I can count on one hand (ok maybe two) the number of days my job produced a level of satisfaction, enjoyment, or happiness.  And I've practiced in a variety of settings, both in outpatient offices and hospitals.  Only deployment overseas to Iraq as an Army Medical Officer gave me the great job satisfaction one would expect to get out of their work.  (Unfortunately it took me a half a world away from my family and cost me precious time with them.)  If you're considering a career as a PA, I advise you to consider the extra mile and go to medical school.  Yes it will be a longer path and a harder one, but it will end.  Once you finish PA school you will have the honor of joining the miserable, underpaid, overworked, disrespected, unappreciated, overlooked, unrecognized, unnoticed, always pushed around health care professionals on God's green earth.  We all like to think of ourselves as doing a lot (or most) of what doctors do.  And this is true!  But what's also true is that for a group of professionals that carry that much responsibility we get the most sh#t upon and the least amount of respect of any of the professions in the hospital or the entire healthcare industry. And we don't make anything near what a doctor makes.  Most of the hospital thinks of us as a joke and aren't even nice to us- even when they need us to do anything.  In New York we have no choice but to sell our souls to the doctors and hospitals.  Communism rules and capitalism is dead (meaning - we're not even allowed to choose our own future as an entrepreneur and open our own practice; even if we hire our own supervising physicians!)  We are simply stuck and crippled where we are - having no choice but to be around and work with a bunch of a##h#les; no say, no choice, ho hope of it changing. The job simply sucks!  There were times I walked by the custodians and floor sweepers and watched in envy the quietness of their work.  Nobody seems to bother them.  And we all appreciate a nice clean work environment.  I doubt they take their job home with them at night.  And I hate to say it but, despite the headlines of a "growing PA profession" and it being called one of the hottest jobs of the future, the actual job absolutely sucks.  Don't be fooled!  If you decide to go to PA school and become a PA you'll find out just what I'm talking about.  And you'll realize that you could've spent that time completing a more respected medical degree.  If I could go back in time, I would actually choose a totally different career path; probably as far away from the healthcare field as possible!  But if it was in healthcare, it would be the path of a doctor.

 

Again, if you're thinking of PA school... 

Take my advice...   ...go to medical school.

 

 

Yeah, I'm gonna call BS on this.

 

I'm currently a military PA working in a small clinic. In the military, the PAs pretty much get treated likes docs. My patients call me doctor all the time and don't really know the difference.

 

I really don't get sh*t on and I consider many of the docs that I work with to be friends. In fact, my SP is a young doc. We go to the gym and church together and pick up girls together on the weekends. He's one of my best friends.

 

Of course, that last bit could be just where you work. Not all docs are cool. But if you have an SP that's so much of a d*ck that it makes your job miserable, you could just leave and get a new job. Simple.

 

Also, as far as not being an entrepreneur, that's insane. Is it more difficult to open up your own practice? Sure. But it can be done. Also, you don't HAVE to do that to be an entrepreneur. One of my preceptors in my ER rotation is an ER PA that work three 12s and owns a bunch of homes that he rents out. In total, he makes more than the docs he works with because of his rental properties. A TRUE entrepreneur thinks outside the box. 

 

OP, I had another preceptor in school that hated his job. He truly hated it. But he worked there for 10+ years and didn't plan to quit. He always fantasized about leaving the country, but he'll never do it. Don't be that guy, OP. If you want to go to med school, then do it. It's never too late to do what you really want to do in life.

 

Personally, I have thought about going to med school when my military contract is up, but, ultimately, I don't think it's for me. So far, I like being a PA. If that changes, then I'll adapt.

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

Maybe it just frankly is a personality matter.  I'm with the OP in that I haven't particularly felt a lot of self-satisfaction over the years either in multiple settings, covering multiple specialties, and even while working with some wonderful people.  Part of that involves the fact that I've stayed within a 30 mile perimeter in a large metropolitan area where physicians are a dime a dozen and MLP's are rarely going to be able to do squat (depends on how you define "squat", I know), unlike what others may be able to do in smaller and/or more remote communities.  That's been my choice for any number of reasons.  Maybe when it's all said and done, even though we find medicine interesting, it's the people part that drives some of us nuts.  I'm a "fixer" personality.  You come to me with a gripe I believe that you're expecting me to "fix it".  If I do, then go about your business and don't come back complaining about the fix.  As we all know, with patients, that isn't always the case.  I've come to realize as I've gotten older that there can't be THAT many screwed up people that make it their lives work to make me miserable while dealing with them (well, ok, maybe there are).  All that being said, and as I've told younger souls over the years who work in separate career settings, you ultimately have two choices.  Change jobs or learn to deal with it.

 

To the OP, I believe, as stated here by many others, that there are many folks who are quite content with their career calling so we can't make a blanket statement with regard to no one else should do it either.  As I believe another of our seasoned posters has stated, Paula has had to look and hunt and try for years to find that right match, and now she seems to have done just that.  Maybe mine is found tomorrow when I interview for a medical practice position that doesn't require me to provide the direct care but still allows for my input on treatment plans and also to educate the patient.  For myself, that might be heaven.

 

Life is too short to be miserable during the majority of your life years while away from family and other activities that provide you with greater satisfaction.  I do hope that you find your peace, wherever that may be.

[EMEDPA]

What you say about working in metro areas is very true(at least for me). I had a series of scut work jobs until 7 years ago when I started working rural jobs with high acuity and autonomy. yesterday, for example I managed a septic/hyperkalemic 80 year old with intubation, central line, pressors, multiple drips and procedures, icu admit, etc .

no way I would even be in the same room with a pt that sick at any of my jobs at major metropolitan medical centers. where there are lots of docs, pas do scut. if you work alone or with a single doc, all of a sudden your respect and autonomy goes up a thousand percent. I have not worked in the military, but I understand this is a similar situation. I have heard many pas leaving the military are very upset with what they find in the civilian world unless they seek out rural/undersserved opportunities.

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

EMEDPA, I found your next remote job earlier today:

http://jobs.utmbhealth.com/job/Galveston-Mid-Level-Practitioner-CPMO-Antarctica-Support-Contract-Job-TX-77550/2536852/

 

Better pack fast....and oh, BTW, don't forget a windbreaker!

[EMEDPA]

EMEDPA, I found your next remote job earlier today:

http://jobs.utmbhealth.com/job/Galveston-Mid-Level-Practitioner-CPMO-Antarctica-Support-Contract-Job-TX-77550/2536852/

 

Better pack fast....and oh, BTW, don't forget a windbreaker!

it won't load. do you have another link? never mind, found it.

would actually do if single...

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

Hmm, loads for me.  UTMB jobs, PA, Antartica search.  Oh, another BTW, I don't see a contractual time so I hope you enjoy penguins.

[EMEDPA]

got it, thanks.

[Maverick87]

What you say about working in metro areas is very true(at least for me). I had a series of scut work jobs until 7 years ago when I started working rural jobs with high acuity and autonomy. yesterday, for example I managed a septic/hyperkalemic 80 year old with intubation, central line, pressors, multiple drips and procedures, icu admit, etc .

no way I would even be in the same room with a pt that sick at any of my jobs at major metropolitan medical centers. where there are lots of docs, pas do scut. if you work alone or with a single doc, all of a sudden your respect and autonomy goes up a thousand percent. I have not worked in the military, but I understand this is a similar situation. I have heard many pas leaving the military are very upset with what they find in the civilian world unless they seek out rural/undersserved opportunities.

What's your definition of "scut"?

[whoRyou]

What's your definition of "scut"?

SCUT=> Some Clinically Useful Tasks 

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

SCUT=> Some Clinically Useful Tasks

*useless tasks* tedious, monotonous work of no real use to anyone. Also, Maverick knows what it is. He's asking what emed is calling scut.

[whoRyou]

*useless tasks* tedious, monotonous work of no real use to anyone. Also, Maverick knows what it is. He's asking what emed is calling scut.

Oops, thanks for catching that. Although, I am sure there are some  that are useful

[EMEDPA]

*useless tasks* tedious, monotonous work of no real use to anyone. Also, Maverick knows what it is. He's asking what emed is calling scut.

yup. care of benign , self limited illnesses....stuff too trivial to bother your pcp about but ok to go to the er for(!).

[JohnnyM2]

Bummer. I think I'll just go slit my wrists.

 

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[taotaox1]

Let this thread die. Just saying.

[rcreek]

Let this thread die. Just saying.

 

Yes please. There are physicians who say the same thing. There will always be those people who get burned out and pessimistic about their career - no matter what it is.

[itrilazio]

You whining fool. Starting a new job puts you at the bottom. Doesn't matter what profession you are in. I am a pa in surgery in nyc, I make over 3 figures, I work 4 10s a week, I see my own patients and assist in surgery. I go out with my attendings and consider them friends and they consider me friends as well. Please to all young pa's or future pa's, don't let this bonehead turn you off to a great job. With any new and developing job, there are people who know how to utilize us and those who do not. That is why askin g the correct questions during interviews is important. I have been a pa for 3 years and I have no complaints accept that the pt's in the bronx are extremely sick. If you don't like ny, go to ct.

[Marinejiujitsu]

I feel a PA that isn't satisfied , the level of disatisfaction would transition to MD.

[Sassy27]

I would just like to weigh in on this topic as a PA who started her career in NYC and worked there for the past 5 years. I worked at 2 major hospitals - one of them inner city and the other a prestigious academic institution. At the inner city hospital, the PAs essentially functioned as not only the PA, but often times the RN, SP (there rarely wasn't one around), the phlebotomist, the secretary and the code team. Our patient load was astronomical and unbearable; esp for as sick as the patients were. Most all of them belonged in the MICU but they unfortunately did not have the capacity for the load of the hospital. Sometimes we would have to run 2 codes at once on the floor at the same time but with only one code team available. No patient continuity. No supervisor or attending support. Complete chaos. Malpractice like I've never even imagined I would see (or hope to see again). After 3 years I eventually got hired at this academic instruction. The organization was better, but the PAs were still worked to capacity and the workload wasn't much better. Worse - the culture there promoted bullying and cliquieness. Everybody was trying to move up in the food chain and the best way to do this was to find mistakes in others work. You constantly had to watch your back, front and side. The smallest infraction you were threatened termination. Don't think I've ever heard the term "termination" tossed around to cavilerly. Attendings were nasty, unhelpful, insulting and wouldn't hesitate to humiliate a PA if they're having a bad day. This wasn't just how I was treated - it was everyone.

 

This summer I made the best decesion of my life when I moved back to the suburbs where I grew up out west. I got an amazing hospital job where Pas are respected and treated as professionals and important members of the team - not slaves or punching bags. My quality of life has soared to unimaginable heights. So therefore the point I'm trying to make is that I have bitterness just like the OP - but my bitterness lies with the working conditions in NYC and not the PA profession. Jesus if I has been still working in that s*hit hole of a city 13 years from now I don't want to even think about how much I would just HATE everything about work. I'm sure with time the bitterness and ache that I have will fade and I'll remember the good times - but if this OP whose writing this has worked in the NYC hospital system for 17 YEARS I can't say his anger is completely undeserved - perhaps a little misplaced but not undeserved.

[True Anomaly]

I would just like to weigh in on this topic as a PA who started her career in NYC and worked there for the past 5 years. I worked at 2 major hospitals - one of them inner city and the other a prestigious academic institution. At the inner city hospital, the PAs essentially functioned as not only the PA, but often times the RN, SP (there rarely wasn't one around), the phlebotomist, the secretary and the code team. Our patient load was astronomical and unbearable; esp for as sick as the patients were. Most all of them belonged in the MICU but they unfortunately did not have the capacity for the load of the hospital. Sometimes we would have to run 2 codes at once on the floor at the same time but with only one code team available. No patient continuity. No supervisor or attending support. Complete chaos. Malpractice like I've never even imagined I would see (or hope to see again). After 3 years I eventually got hired at this academic instruction. The organization was better, but the PAs were still worked to capacity and the workload wasn't much better. Worse - the culture there promoted bullying and cliquieness. Everybody was trying to move up in the food chain and the best way to do this was to find mistakes in others work. You constantly had to watch your back, front and side. The smallest infraction you were threatened termination. Don't think I've ever heard the term "termination" tossed around to cavilerly. Attendings were nasty, unhelpful, insulting and wouldn't hesitate to humiliate a PA if they're having a bad day. This wasn't just how I was treated - it was everyone.

 

This summer I made the best decesion of my life when I moved back to the suburbs where I grew up out west. I got an amazing hospital job where Pas are respected and treated as professionals and important members of the team - not slaves or punching bags. My quality of life has soared to unimaginable heights. So therefore the point I'm trying to make is that I have bitterness just like the OP - but my bitterness lies with the working conditions in NYC and not the PA profession. Jesus if I has been still working in that s*hit hole of a city 13 years from now I don't want to even think about how much I would just HATE everything about work. I'm sure with time the bitterness and ache that I have will fade and I'll remember the good times - but if this OP whose writing this has worked in the NYC hospital system for 17 YEARS I can't say his anger is completely undeserved - perhaps a little misplaced but not undeserved.

Wow....thanks for sharing.  Didn't know it could really be that bad in NYC

[rmathews619]

Saw this link a month ago, and I posted it somewhere else on this forum...

 

http://online.wsj.com/articles/the-u-s-s-ailing-medical-system-a-doctors-perspective-1409325361?ru=yahoo?mod=yahoo_itp

[medic25]

Wow....thanks for sharing. Didn't know it could really be that bad in NYC

I did multiple rotations at a NYC HHC Hospital and ultimately took a job in their ED after graduation. I can vouch for how bad it is. Understaffed, under-equipped, and a sick population with no real follow-up capacity. The first time I saw a cockroach in the delivery room during my OB/GYN rotation I knew I wouldn't be spending my career there. Got to meet a lot of excellent, dedicated PA's there, but the system is a meat grinder.

[rev ronin]

I would just like to weigh in on this topic as a PA who started her career in NYC and worked there for the past 5 years. I worked at 2 major hospitals - one of them inner city and the other a prestigious academic institution. At the inner city hospital, the PAs essentially functioned as not only the PA, but often times the RN, SP (there rarely wasn't one around), the phlebotomist, the secretary and the code team. Our patient load was astronomical and unbearable; esp for as sick as the patients were. Most all of them belonged in the MICU but they unfortunately did not have the capacity for the load of the hospital. Sometimes we would have to run 2 codes at once on the floor at the same time but with only one code team available. No patient continuity. No supervisor or attending support. Complete chaos. Malpractice like I've never even imagined I would see (or hope to see again). After 3 years I eventually got hired at this academic instruction. The organization was better, but the PAs were still worked to capacity and the workload wasn't much better. Worse - the culture there promoted bullying and cliquieness. Everybody was trying to move up in the food chain and the best way to do this was to find mistakes in others work. You constantly had to watch your back, front and side. The smallest infraction you were threatened termination. Don't think I've ever heard the term "termination" tossed around to cavilerly. Attendings were nasty, unhelpful, insulting and wouldn't hesitate to humiliate a PA if they're having a bad day. This wasn't just how I was treated - it was everyone.

 

This summer I made the best decesion of my life when I moved back to the suburbs where I grew up out west. I got an amazing hospital job where Pas are respected and treated as professionals and important members of the team - not slaves or punching bags. My quality of life has soared to unimaginable heights. So therefore the point I'm trying to make is that I have bitterness just like the OP - but my bitterness lies with the working conditions in NYC and not the PA profession. Jesus if I has been still working in that s*hit hole of a city 13 years from now I don't want to even think about how much I would just HATE everything about work. I'm sure with time the bitterness and ache that I have will fade and I'll remember the good times - but if this OP whose writing this has worked in the NYC hospital system for 17 YEARS I can't say his anger is completely undeserved - perhaps a little misplaced but not undeserved.

This is what happens when there is an oversupply of PAs in a region.  Well, the fact that it's NYC doesn't help, but still.

[PACProvider]

Doctors are inherently arrogant because they are disconnected from the marketplace. The OPs references to communism might be extreme but his larger point is that doctors enjoy protected markets by state regulatory bodies. The protection produces arrogance. The arrogance leads to bullying and disrespect. I see doctors as predators in search of persons they can exploit or harm. When I work with docs, I am polite. If I am in the break room, I might exchange pleasantries. They are not friends. I won't take any crap from any doc. Having a protracted battle is emotionally draining but learning to do it in a professional manner and winning in the end will stop the predators from approaching. I just approach my job as a PA and remember I am doctoring. I know it. My patients know it. The doctors in the clinic and hospital feel threatened by it so they need to try to marginalize. The longer I practice, the less effective the doctors are at diminishing my role and influence. They will always get three times the income. I can live with that. They don't get the right to treat me disrespectfully.