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Interesting a bit derogatory discussion about midlevel providers at EMTLife.com


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I was browsing the EMTLife.com forum and came across this current thread:

 

http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=34252

 

The most derogatory post (so far) by Veneficus:

Lesser educated, lesser dedicated, and less capable providers running around pretending and representing themselves as something they are not and taking money for it.

 

It's a shame that some of my brothers and sisters in EMS see PAs and NPs in this way. I know many midlevel providers and none of them are "lesser dedicated" and often are more capable. None are pretending to be physicians and nearly all have educations that make them competent and capable in what they do, many wishing for more education.

 

I've decided not to post there in response there but thought some others from here may be so inclined.

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I was browsing the EMTLife.com forum and came across this current thread:

 

http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=34252

 

The most derogatory post (so far) by Veneficus:

 

It's a shame that some of my brothers and sisters in EMS see PAs and NPs in this way. I know many midlevel providers and none of them are "lesser dedicated" and often are more capable. None are pretending to be physicians and nearly all have educations that make them competent and capable in what they do, many wishing for more education.

 

I've decided not to post there in response there but thought some others from here may be so inclined.

 

First off, there is nothing "Midlevel" that I do - I practice gold-standard medicine, or I get sued. the term "Midlevel" is derogatory by nature. I am a PA.

 

Second, why would I reply to anyone who's name means "poisonous?" It is only stirring the pot.

 

Third, were I to respond, is there any reason why I would consider someone with 3 months of education (part-time) in medicine is somehow comparable or superior to mine and when they sit in judgement of me I should care? No, not really... I'll just keep playing "make-pretend" doc in an area that can't hire "real ones" because they are committed to the cause of helping others... in NYC and Boston - where the money is.

 

G

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First off, there is nothing "Midlevel" that I do - I practice gold-standard medicine, or I get sued. the term "Midlevel" is derogatory by nature. I am a PA.

 

Second, why would I reply to anyone who's name means "poisonous?" It is only stirring the pot.

 

Third, were I to respond, is there any reason why I would consider someone with 3 months of education (part-time) in medicine is somehow comparable or superior to mine and when they sit in judgement of me I should care? No, not really... I'll just keep playing "make-pretend" doc in an area that can't hire "real ones" because they are committed to the cause of helping others... in NYC and Boston - where the money is.

 

G

 

Very excellent reply! I find it fascinating that there are so many former EMT-Bs and EMT-Ps (Intermediate in my case) who have gone onto PA. Perhaps it's frustration that they never got the opportunity?

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As an EMS professional, you know that we are uniquely positioned to see the worst that the medical system has to offer. I could (but I won't) name for you several downright horrible, unskilled, undedicated people working at every level (MD, PA, NP, RN, CNA...paramedics and EMTs too) but I know that they aren't representative of their professions as a whole. Sometimes, though, it is hard to remember this.

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As an EMS professional, you know that we are uniquely positioned to see the worst that the medical system has to offer. I could (but I won't) name for you several downright horrible, unskilled, undedicated people working at every level (MD, PA, NP, RN, CNA...paramedics and EMTs too) but I know that they aren't representative of their professions as a whole. Sometimes, though, it is hard to remember this.

 

You know this - others don't...

 

Besides, everything written on the internet is right, right?

 

G

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I am often amused at the similarity that is pervasive in the discussions surrounding MD vs PA and the comparison of firefighters, EMT Basics, Intermediates, and Paramedics. We are a bunch of Type A personalities who believes our own personal excrement smells like roses and the only mistake we ever made was buying an eraser. It is in the DNA, I swear it. Someday we'll map out that gene and know who will be in medicine from the womb.

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First off, there is nothing "Midlevel" that I do - I practice gold-standard medicine, or I get sued. the term "Midlevel" is derogatory by nature. I am a PA.

 

My professor the first month of school ingrained in us the term "non-physician extender" in lieu of mlp. I prefer it as well. Maybe we get paid mid level bw the nurses and the docs in the field, but we certainly don't practice in a mid level

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Do they make those sweatshirts in adult sizes?

 

On a sidenote (i.e. the original thread) I'm in the same boat as you bstone, I've been sitting here following that thread in a very disappointed fashion. I'm not entirely sure where that OP is in his education, knew he was going through med school but haven't exactly followed his career with excitement. Fairly typical level of arrogance I've personally observed with newer docs, wonder if it's just something that's beat into their heads during school...

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It's interesting from a "fly on the wall" perspective, but there's a large amount of ignorant speculation and just plain wrong information in that thread. The biggest issue is those people who, no matter how it's argued or what data is presented, view the PA profession as inferior and justify it with their own speculation and/or limited experience working with/talking to/reading about PA's. So it isn't worth a response.

 

Like most of you, I was in EMS long before I was a PA. It's disappointing to see some EMS folks trash other medical professions, but from my own EMS experience I know it's a very small subsegment of the overall EMS population. I got nothing but widespread support from fellow EMT's and paramedics when I went back to school.

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My professor the first month of school ingrained in us the term "non-physician extender" in lieu of mlp. I prefer it as well. Maybe we get paid mid level bw the nurses and the docs in the field, but we certainly don't practice in a mid level

 

I am not sure I understand the semantics.. What the heck is a " non-physician extender?"

Is is a nurse practitioner assistant?( extending the practice of a NP)

Is it a PA's scribe? ( extending the PA practice?)

Is it a male enhancement apparatus for anyone BUT male physicians?

 

I believe the vernacular, under the various terms of what PAs are, is , or shoud be, "PHYSICIAN extender"

Along with "allied health staff", non-physician PRACTITIONER, etc

 

Just askin.

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My professor the first month of school ingrained in us the term "non-physician extender" in lieu of mlp. I prefer it as well. Maybe we get paid mid level bw the nurses and the docs in the field, but we certainly don't practice in a mid level

Ehh. "Non-physician" defines us by what we aren't. I'm also not a wine steward, a professional bobsledder, or a kodiak bear. And "extender" sounds like some sort of durable medical equipment, or something a short physician would use to get samples of Nexium off the top shelf.

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Ehh. "Non-physician" defines us by what we aren't. I'm also not a wine steward, a professional bobsledder, or a kodiak bear. And "extender" sounds like some sort of durable medical equipment, or something a short physician would use to get samples of Nexium off the top shelf.

 

Dr. Gadget, as opposed to Inspector Gadget?

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My favorite comment thus far:

"A PA basically is like a musician that learns to play an instrument without knowing how to read music or music theory. They can play some tunes, they may even be very good at playing those tunes, but it doesn't mean they will be able to understand, and therefore play the most complex music. They will never be the conductor, and they will never be recognized as capable as a doctor by the international community of medicine."

 

I guess Hendrex, Clapton and Slash were all worthless since they didn't learn how to read music..

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Someone sounds miffed that they didn't get to take Anatomy twice! I guess they decided to go less 'complex' and just learn it once in Med School.

 

They can play some tunes, they may even be very good at playing those tunes, but it doesn't mean they will be able to understand, and therefore play the most complex music.

 

I play Beethoven MF, what is it exactly that you play. This person has obviously no clue as to how PA education curriculum is guided and overseen by representatives from numerous MD/DO organizations, including the American College of Surgeons, American Academy of Family Physicians and more. I guess those groups just don't know how to teach complexity, gosh darn it. The same type of blanket statement as theirs could be made about Med students who go into healthcare with zero experience ... how ridiculous a statement would that be since over time experience is key.

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Veneficus over at EMTLife isn't someone with "three months of part time instruction in medicine," he is a physician and paramedic. The OP is perhaps being a little bit disingenuous by starting this thread without stating that, as he is or was a prolific poster at the other forum and must have known this. I used to post over there and consider Veneficus an online mentor of sorts. I don't think he is trashing the profession and believe his perspective is valuable considering his prior experience as a medic (not an EMT) turned physician.

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I was browsing the EMTLife.com forum and came across this current thread:

 

http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=34252

 

The most derogatory post (so far) by Veneficus:

 

It's a shame that some of my brothers and sisters in EMS see PAs and NPs in this way. I know many midlevel providers and none of them are "lesser dedicated" and often are more capable. None are pretending to be physicians and nearly all have educations that make them competent and capable in what they do, many wishing for more education.

 

I've decided not to post there in response there but thought some others from here may be so inclined.

 

Barfing............

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Veneficus over at EMTLife isn't someone with "three months of part time instruction in medicine," he is a physician and paramedic. The OP is perhaps being a little bit disingenuous by starting this thread without stating that, as he is or was a prolific poster at the other forum and must have known this. I used to post over there and consider Veneficus an online mentor of sorts. I don't think he is trashing the profession and believe his perspective is valuable considering his prior experience as a medic (not an EMT) turned physician.

 

R U serious?? I don't know this dude but his first three posts on there made him look like a tool...

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He calls multiple professions 'quacks' without having gone through their training. Even if you went to medical school, if you haven't gone through PA/NP school, what you are saying is just conjecture. I would not call myself lesser dedicated either. I served as a Medic in the Army before PA school and came close to death in foreign countries more than I would care to recall. If that isn't dedication to one's profession, show me what is.

 

He also called the entire United States Department of Defense simpletons. There are some incompetent people within the DoD, but to make such a blanket statement is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. He talks about sacrifices, but if he were asked to make some of the same sacrifices that some servicemembers have, he would be in the corner crying for mommy. I'm generally not such an angry person, but this was over the top.

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