Human Anatomy

In researching the different PA programs out there, I'm intrigued by the different levels of human anatomy that different programs offer. It ranges from full cadaver dissection to little more than viewing a computerized body. Some schools make their students drive an hour to look at cadavers that were dissected by medical students (you won't find that fact on the school web site!).

How important is it to choose a program that offers on-site cadaver dissection?

I know of at least 2 programs where cadavers are fully dissected by PA students -- they spend their 1st summer and semester in PA school doing the dissection, much like med school. Most schools seem to share cadavers with other students.

Personally, I'd want to do the full dissection myself, but I was curious what other students and PA's thought about the importance of that.

I go to samuel merritt university and we have a cadaver lab. We had 4-5 people per body and we did the entire dissection. One of the reasons I went to the school :)

I had a anatomy lab with cadavers in undergrad but they were pre-dissected so for me it's not a huge concern for PA school but the experience was great. We had the option of doing the lab, but our profs said that the class averages for the students who did the lab versus who did not were substantially different. I think it's definitely something to factor in but for me I guess it would depend on how the school teaches the class (ie. computers, models, etc.).

Yale also has full dissection: 4 PA students per cadaver, which I believe is a similar ratio to the med school.

Anatomy hands down was my most difficult subject in PA school probably because my spatial abilities are subpar. Having the opportunity of gross dissection (and being able to return late at night to the anatomy lab to review my group's dissection) enabled me to do well.

Anatomy lab or lack thereof is only one element in comparing PA schools. All things being equal, I would choose a school with full dissection over one without. However, things are never equal and dissection is not essential. A student who went to a school with excellent clinical rotation opportunities but with no dissection will be much better prepared than one who had full dissection but only adequate rotations. Look at the whole picture.

Our PA class dissected our own fresh cadavers from head to toe, (the OT students had one arm and one leg, since we do not need or have the time to dissect both). We are not associated with a hospital, do not have a med school, and the NP program does not take anatomy. We were in groups of 4 PA students per cadaver with 6 cadavers (one had to be replaced halfway through the semester due to mold and the new cadaver had a ***** implant... another story). Our anatomy course alone was 15 hours a week. MWF 2 hours of lecture than 3 hours of dissection. That made last semester 30+ hours of scheduled class a week. Just for anatomy we usually had to stay another hour or 2 to keep up with dissection and to learn the MRIs, X-rays, full plasticized cadaver cut into cross sections, and other tools appropriate for that unit, as we were responsible for everything in the lab. The class was intense, bruta, soul sucking and culminated with a 4.5 hour final 5 days after last unit exam. I learned so much more about time management and sacrifice through that course. We all joke now about how this semester which introduces us having patients and millions of case studies, while time consuming, still feels like a half day.

First, dissection was extremely important to me and one of the many reasons I selected my program. I was adamant about visiting the cadaver lab and possibly viewing the cadaver lab in action in all my interviews. I learned so much from just having my hands dirty and doing work. I learned to be delicate with labs like dissecting the eye including all muscles, nerves, and vasculature through the inside of the skull, or the need for more brute force like when we had to hammer of the vertebrate while saving a portion of multifidus muscle. Of course taking a saw to the skull, clavical, zygomatic arch, etc. was fun too.

Our anatomy professor taught for many years at a prestigious med school and PA school down south as the AP/lab instructor for the med students. She occasionally held lectures for the PA students, however, they had prosections with a TA. She still travels to that med school for research and to hold lectures for the faculty and med students. She takes PAs students with her aid that schools med students with dissections related to her expertise. Her specialty is locomotion of mammals (we had a mini course within our course about identifying pathologies, mechanisms, etc. behind gait and an intense focus on the lower limb, which she saves for the last unit). She said she teaches our course identical in every way to the medschool program, teaching us the same and holding us to the same standard. I learned so much from my dissections that I cannot imagine not having that experience to build on. There were days where I wish I had prosections and had time to lounge on the weekend, but I think I am better for the experience.

Sorry to drone on, but I guess I see it as a sort of downfall for PA programs not to require cadaver dissections as part of the curriculum. I interviewed at programs that not only didn't offer dissection, they were happy about their all digital dissections they are implementing in a few years. For me there are just some things that the computers cannot duplicate. That said, I do not think for one second that those with cadaver dissection are in any way better practitioners than those without, as PA school is all about what you put into it. I just think the experience is a necessary and foundational part of learning medicine, at least in my book.

Good Luck

Our cadavers were predissected by medical students, then we had a day to complete our own dissections. It made no difference to me, and likely saved me tuition money. I'm 6 months out from graduation and after my intense ER,ICU,IMC, etc rotations, I haven't once wished I did a full cadaver lab. I certainly wouldn't choose a school over it, I would rather look at the didactic structure, quality clinical sites, and PANCE scores. Just my opinion though.....

Methodist University has it's own lab, and the PA students do all the dissections.

My school has silicone covered cadavers (male and female). That is definitely better than a computer. However this year my program has partnered with the brand new physical therapy program. The PT school must do dissection for their program. Since the cadavers are available, we are invited to observe them. It is a huge benefit and I can now see why having more "hands on" could have been better. That said, I feel I have the opportunity to learn the human body much better than a program that has no cadaver options. While someone who does the dissection probably has a better hands on experience, my program does not allow the time. We have 3 hours of lecture and 2 hours of lab - very small.

Like previous posters- if all things were equal, sure I might like dissection, but I had other factors that helped me decide on my school and I am happy with my choice.

In my program we do full cadaver dissections with 4 students per cadaver donor. In addition to full dissection, we do many surgical procedures (thorocotomy and chest tubes, whipple, appendectomy, ileocecal resection and anastomosis,laminectomy and tons more) on the cadavers and we have anatomy for 9 full months. <O:p</O:p

I go to MCPHS and we take our cadaver lab at Harvard Med. We have 10 cadavers for 75 people, split into groups A-L. Two groups on lab day dissect a certain region (whatever we are learning, say pharynx/larynx) and another two groups assist, then the rest of the class comes in and the two groups that dissected will show us what they found and explain each thing they see.

Rinse and repeat. I was skeptical at first, but this lab is awesome. Everyone gets at least 5 or so dissections of their own (not including the time as assisting group) and we can be in the lab anytime we want to strengthen up on our anatomy.

One of the main reasons I chose MCPHS was because of the cadaver lab and how it is hosted by Harvard Med, and it has not disappointed. It's awesome and a great learning experience.

EDIT- I should add that we DO NOT share our cadavers with Harvard med students.

Interesting responses...thanks everyone.

I attend the University of Florida, and we also had a full cadaver lab for anatomy and completed the entire dissections ourselves (about 4 students per cadaver). We will also use cadavers again this summer, to practice advanced procedural skills before heading out on our rotations. I feel it was an absolutely invaluable experience, and was one of the many reasons I selected this program! :)

Midwestern University (at least the one in AZ) offers full dissection to PA students separately from the DO students. If I remember correctly we do share with the physical therapy students but the PAs are more "center stage" during the lab. There are only a few students to each cadaver which is a positive aspect as well!

All other factors aside, that was one of their strongest selling points to me and really sealed the deal. I'm a very visual and hands-on person so honestly, any sort of virtual anatomy lab or pre-dissected one wouldn't help me learn as well... and the program cost wouldn't seem nearly as worthwhile. I was hugely disappointed with OHSU in particular who didn't offer a separate cadaver lab, especially with their high tuition. I wish more programs would offer this since it creates a strong foundation for the rest of your education (in my opinion, of course).

It's totally up to you based on your learning style and interests. I placed high importance on this and my school choices were severely limited (sadly!) but if you're okay with the other options then more power to you!

My program(drexel) required a dissection a+p course as a prereq then had an on site prosection course as part of the program.

It's all computer-based now. I did take a prosection anatomy course for my prereq, although I don't remember anything about a mandated dissection course. There were a lot of moans and groans from the class when we were told about the computer-based anatomy. Drexel has the PT students doing the dissections now.

Our class was the last one Dr. H taught for the program, now I believe they have a PT teaching. I took my undergrad anatomy at UCSC also ... we have a really similar education track lol, sorta creepy! Oh yea, forgot to tell you, I'm starting at your hospital next week!

I'm at philadelphia university and there are 10 cadavers per 50 students. The student do all the dissections from July to December.

It's all computer-based now.... Drexel has the PT students doing the dissections now.

Heme, can you explain what you mean by computer-based? At my interview, I was told by current students that they use prosected cadavers in lab. My A&P pre-req did not have a cadaver-based lab, but we had a computer program we used (which didn't wow me) and we dissected various cow, sheep, and pig parts... so I was kinda looking forward to a real lab, examining the prosections.

My program has a full cadaver dissection. 3-4 students per body shared morning and afternoon (morning will do one side, afternoon the other - and split organ dissections, etc. I am currently in my first term and taking anatomy now. Absolutely invaluable opportunity that I will always be greatful for. Can you be a great clinician without it? I would imagine so ...there are many good programs out there without it. But for me, it has really helped to solidify relationships and perspectives and has been a very fulfilling journey. Some structures have been much bigger and/or smaller than you can appreciate from a diagram. It has been very interesting. It is indeed living up to the "gross" name - but fun nonetheless! :)

Drexel has a prosection lab once a week. We had a PT/PhD teaching last quarter. Overall the class was ok, as with almost everything you get what you put into it!

At Des Moines University we did essentially a full dissection. 4-5 students per body along with a TA. Occassionally the TA would "get things started" before we got there and remove much of the skin covering a region, especially the hand, foot, back. Couldn't imagine learning anatomy any other way.

I've used computer based programs such as ADAM in undergrad (the course was actually for the DPT students but bio students were allowed to take it) and it is nothing like actually exploring a real body. I learned 10x the amount in PA school compared to undergrad, even though both were technically "grad" level courses.